sps dying from the base up

[snake1]

what is the deal with some of my sps dying this way ....daily you can see it creeping upward and they all start at the base turning white and continuing upwards... i cant tell if the flesh is actually peeling off i have read something about that and i have read that high alk can cause this but i just checked and all my levels are low my alk was 6.9- 7.0 my cal is 390 and mag is 1335 thats the only thing thats fine... could the low alk cause this to a few of my acros and mili populations.....also i have never had such a big drop but i started using acro power could that throw things off???? sorry dumb ? but just throwing that out there.. thanks

 

[Fishmommy]

I had low alk cause that once.

 

[aguila88psi]

Stability is the key, a lot of times its temperature and alk fluctuations, can't help to what caused your coral to bleach but keep things consistent and you'll have success.

 

[snake1]

Stability is the key, a lot of times its temperature and alk fluctuations, can't help to what caused your coral to bleach but keep things consistent and you'll have success.

I have been really good about testing and keeping everything stable for the last year and yes its my fault i took a month off of testing i still did my 10 gallon weekly water changes and i started adding acro power.... but i figured since my calcium and alk haven`t changed all that much through the past few months i could slack a bit on testing (well i`m wrong) figures when you always test nothing needs adjusting now i need alot of adjusting!

 

[ChadRaay86]

You're seeing negative affects because of a rapid drop in both alk and calc. If the AcroPower caused your SPS to start growing faster or just utilizing more alk/calc and you didn't catch it with regular testing then thats probably it. Do a 20-30% water change now and look into a dower/calc reactor or look at doing a lot more regular water changes to account for the increase in calc/alk utilization.

I've had this happen to me a few times, where my calc or alk would drop and I'd notice it in the corals only because I wasn't testing my water regularly enough. Test alk everyday until you resolve the issue and then look to test at least twice a week on a regular basis. Calc, once you get the levels up can be tested every other week.

 

[snake1]

You're seeing negative affects because of a rapid drop in both alk and calc. If the AcroPower caused your SPS to start growing faster or just utilizing more alk/calc and you didn't catch it with regular testing then thats probably it. Do a 20-30% water change now and look into a dower/calc reactor or look at doing a lot more regular water changes to account for the increase in calc/alk utilization.

I've had this happen to me a few times, where my calc or alk would drop and I'd notice it in the corals only because I wasn't testing my water regularly enough. Test alk everyday until you resolve the issue and then look to test at least twice a week on a regular basis. Calc, once you get the levels up can be tested every other week.

I do use a two part dosing system and have added more time to each for now to adjust and test each day till i get it back up safely i use my controller to keep the dosing throughout the 24 hr period....should i still do a 20to 30% water change? and my next question whats everyones thoughts on hanna checkers are they that much better or just save my money and stick with salifert? thanks for tips and advice everyone!!!!

 

[ChadRaay86]

Salifert are the better test kits by far, the hanna is just easier. I use the Hanna phosphate checker because I'm not insanely concerned with phosphate numbers. I feel that a water change is always a good refresh for a tank, it gives an initial boost and then you can adjust your dosing from there. Just be careful in increasing your levels, if you go too quickly only bad things can happen...

 

[snake1]

my next question if i get everything stabilized are the corals going to still die? will the death still continue upward on the coral?

 

[snake1]

Salifert are the better test kits by far, the hanna is just easier. I use the Hanna phosphate checker because I'm not insanely concerned with phosphate numbers. I feel that a water change is always a good refresh for a tank, it gives an initial boost and then you can adjust your dosing from there. Just be careful in increasing your levels, if you go too quickly only bad things can happen...

i`m using the online reef calculator by j.dieck...i`m only raising the levels up per online suggestions and PH levels

 

[janes_mw]

Alk at 7 is ok if that is what your goal is (natural seawater is 7-8, folks running Ultra Low Nutrient Systems run at 7-8 as a goal), BUT a rapid increase or decrease is not. Like Pedro said, stability is everything. Was it concurrent with something you just did? I believe AcroPower is an amino acid additive which should not have affected your KH but changes the nutrient level in the water column. The uptake of Ca and Alk can increase as tank demands, but you need to measure, increase, dose and calculate the uptake and dose to maintain the level you desire.

STN at the base can be caused by a multitude of issues like quick parameter shifts, especially temperature, alkalinity & salinity, but can be from insufficient flow, lighting, & excess nutrients, prophylactic coral dips, rapid nutrient & elemental gradient changes, etc.

Was the alk swing rapid or over a period of time? It doesn't sound like you changed light or flow. How long you had the items with tissue loss?

Sorry your having "grief tank" issues for sure. I think most everybody has scratched their heads a few times over this hobby:headwally:

 

[snake1]

Alk at 7 is ok if that is what your goal is (natural seawater is 7-8, folks running Ultra Low Nutrient Systems run at 7-8 as a goal), BUT a rapid increase or decrease is not. Like Pedro said, stability is everything. Was it concurrent with something you just did? I believe AcroPower is an amino acid additive which should not have affected your KH but changes the nutrient level in the water column. The uptake of Ca and Alk can increase as tank demands, but you need to measure, increase, dose and calculate the uptake and dose to maintain the level you desire.

STN at the base can be caused by a multitude of issues like quick parameter shifts, especially temperature, alkalinity & salinity, but can be from insufficient flow, lighting, & excess nutrients, prophylactic coral dips, rapid nutrient & elemental gradient changes, etc.

Was the alk swing rapid or over a period of time? It doesn't sound like you changed light or flow. How long you had the items with tissue loss?

Sorry your having "grief tank" issues for sure. I think most everybody has scratched their heads a few times over this hobby:headwally:

The issue started last week with one coral which is gone now and now its starting with two more and im seeing it`s same pattern so i`m concerned and i tested and found these lowered results...i`m mad at myself for not testing earlier i`ve been busy and now i`m paying for it...

 

[aguila88psi]

i`m using the online reef calculator by j.dieck...i`m only raising the levels up per online suggestions and PH levels

What's your pH?

Mine used to stay in the 7.6-7.8 with no problems for the longest and now its 8.1 probably because I'm dosing 140ml alk randys diy 2part recipe 1 daily. I too had a lot of my corals die initially, just keep at it, dont give up and you'll get there.

 

[snake1]

Before I couldn't get the pH above 8.0 it was always 7.67 to 7.96 from morning till night now its 7.90 to 8.05 at days end not sure what that's about I haven't changed much

 

[aguila88psi]

What do you dose and what salt do you use and how do you check salinity and how often do you check salinity?

 

[Milfordguy]

I'm experiencing the same problem, Alk, Ca, Mg, PO and NO3 all stable/non existent. Salinity in check as well as temp.

I'll definitely be following along. So far I have lost 2 corals to STN and I'm seeing a little more base RTN from some others.

 

[snake1]

I was using esv bionic but now I am using BRS 2 part mix to save money I wonder if its not strong enough because I did run out of esv 2 weeks ago and started using BRS and I didn't test but now I'm thinking maybe its weaker because I haven't had much growth to cause that much of a difference

 

[Bevin]

You will need to frag the coral to save what's left. It will not stop receding on it's own.

 

[snake1]

You will need to frag the coral to save what's left. It will not stop receding on it's own.[/QU

Unfortunately I have tried that with and without a dip in revive and no luck in fact I think the dip in revive nuked it quicker like completely white and dead over night

 

[Ted_C]

the exact same problem happened to me. If you were to take macro pictures of your coral's remaining skin and corals "unaffected" skin - I think you may notice blistering or bubbled skin - like a strong breeze will dislodge and start stripping it away.

What confused me with my problem was it spanned multiple families: acropora, montipora, psammacora, torts, etc.)

Yes - dips on a stressed coral are only going to make it worse.

If you look up your symptoms - they are probably exactly in line with white band disease. Even those this is supposed to be specific for acropora (is it palette sp.?). My last resort was to use a gram negative antibiotic whole tank treatment - as I was also guessing at cause. I think it was gram negative - but don't quote me on that or take my word - I always mess up the two. I think I read that the majority of bacteria in the nitrifying / denitrifying process are gram positive so the addition of gram negative antibiotics should not affect the health of the tank.

like I said though - it might be the other way around (gram positive) - so do your research and ask an LFS if this is appropriate.

I think my problem was due to two or more underlying issues (and the antibiotic wouldn't have helped - but I tore down the system before I could get up to a full dose):

1: I removed my sand bed and went bare bottom. I didn't see the SPS problem until 3 months after this event. The absence of nitrifying bacteria that was in the sand bed (along with an imbalance between nitrifying bacteria and denitrifying bacteria) caused changes in the alkalinity consumption.

2: Changes in alkalinity due to bacterial activity. the nitrifying process (converting ammonia to nitrates) uses alkalinity. without the corresponding denitrifying process in the ecosystem the carbonates are locked up and biologically unavailable - which reads lower alkalinity. Instead of solving this problem by lowering feedings or more frequent water changes - I started dosing Ca, Alk and Mg. I was dosing upwards of 120 ml of Ca and Alk per day in the height of my problems and still couldn't make a dent in my low numbers.

3: Sever aiptasia outbreak. The use of Aiptasia-X did not help my aiptasia problem and probable made it worse. I think the reproductive spores of the Aiptasia may have an adverse effect on SPS.

4: overfeeding / overstocked. I always had a fair amount of detritus in the bottom of the tank. that also caused bacterial imbalances.

5: could it have been the vermetid snails? I don't know. I think the explosion in population was related to overfeeding. The snail shells are made of calcium carbonate though - so my dosing was also contributing to their growth.

While the advice given so far regarding Alk is mostly ok - try to realize that the low alk (lower than your original salt mix) is indicative of another problem. adding more alk via dosing or trying to switch salts is NOT the solution to your issue. Don't try to chase numbers by changing dosing.

you have a fairly new tank - 6-8 months or so if I'm not mistaken. You really shouldn't require dosing at this point should you? Its good to think that dosing will increase the opportunity for coral growth - but it really doesn't. Not at this point. your water changes should cover the young coral requirements. Dosing and calcium reactors are recommended for very mature / large SPS colonies / Clams.

Get your bacterial activity / bacterial balance under control by any means necessary. balance out the nitrifying / denitrifying bacteria and you should see your alk balance itself out.

The only other thing I can say is good luck. It's a tough problem to solve.

 

[snake1]

the exact same problem happened to me. If you were to take macro pictures of your coral's remaining skin and corals "unaffected" skin - I think you may notice blistering or bubbled skin - like a strong breeze will dislodge and start stripping it away.

What confused me with my problem was it spanned multiple families: acropora, montipora, psammacora, torts, etc.)

Yes - dips on a stressed coral are only going to make it worse.

If you look up your symptoms - they are probably exactly in line with white band disease. Even those this is supposed to be specific for acropora (is it palette sp.?). My last resort was to use a gram negative antibiotic whole tank treatment - as I was also guessing at cause. I think it was gram negative - but don't quote me on that or take my word - I always mess up the two. I think I read that the majority of bacteria in the nitrifying / denitrifying process are gram positive so the addition of gram negative antibiotics should not affect the health of the tank.

like I said though - it might be the other way around (gram positive) - so do your research and ask an LFS if this is appropriate.

I think my problem was due to two or more underlying issues (and the antibiotic wouldn't have helped - but I tore down the system before I could get up to a full dose):

1: I removed my sand bed and went bare bottom. I didn't see the SPS problem until 3 months after this event. The absence of nitrifying bacteria that was in the sand bed (along with an imbalance between nitrifying bacteria and denitrifying bacteria) caused changes in the alkalinity consumption.

2: Changes in alkalinity due to bacterial activity. the nitrifying process (converting ammonia to nitrates) uses alkalinity. without the corresponding denitrifying process in the ecosystem the carbonates are locked up and biologically unavailable - which reads lower alkalinity. Instead of solving this problem by lowering feedings or more frequent water changes - I started dosing Ca, Alk and Mg. I was dosing upwards of 120 ml of Ca and Alk per day in the height of my problems and still couldn't make a dent in my low numbers.

3: Sever aiptasia outbreak. The use of Aiptasia-X did not help my aiptasia problem and probable made it worse. I think the reproductive spores of the Aiptasia may have an adverse effect on SPS.

4: overfeeding / overstocked. I always had a fair amount of detritus in the bottom of the tank. that also caused bacterial imbalances.

5: could it have been the vermetid snails? I don't know. I think the explosion in population was related to overfeeding. The snail shells are made of calcium carbonate though - so my dosing was also contributing to their growth.

While the advice given so far regarding Alk is mostly ok - try to realize that the low alk (lower than your original salt mix) is indicative of another problem. adding more alk via dosing or trying to switch salts is NOT the solution to your issue. Don't try to chase numbers by changing dosing.

you have a fairly new tank - 6-8 months or so if I'm not mistaken. You really shouldn't require dosing at this point should you? Its good to think that dosing will increase the opportunity for coral growth - but it really doesn't. Not at this point. your water changes should cover the young coral requirements. Dosing and calcium reactors are recommended for very mature / large SPS colonies / Clams.

Get your bacterial activity / bacterial balance under control by any means necessary. balance out the nitrifying / denitrifying bacteria and you should see your alk balance itself out.

The only other thing I can say is good luck. It's a tough problem to solve.

I know the tank is only around 10 to 11 months old I dose because of the coral load I have right now you can view my latest tank shots I took last weekend in my photo album on my page I think with the load of sps I am somewhat correct with the amount of dosing I'm doing I will give exact numbers of what I'm dosing everyday when I get home to check my controller