SPS help!

Duc1098 · Oct 26, 2012

So I wanted to get some of the experts opinions off the site to see if I am on the right train of though for my tank.

I started keeping SPS a little of a year ago after going through my "beginner" coral phase (wish I never did that) and got my first SPS, a Bali Green Slimmer. Looking at this Acro at the LFS I was amazed at the polyp extenstion and deep green color. A little over a year in the tank and it has had its ups and downs and has grown well but never really had that polyp extension and color I remember in the store or when I see them at other places. I have since added numerous different types of SPS with pretty much the same results, with some of them completely browning out or fading. With these troubles I have been doing a lot of research and buying of the "end all be all" products that is going to fix it... the silver bullet as I like to look at it. I think I may have finally figured out the answer and it appears to not be one thing.

Since I started up my tank I has always heard Phospates, Nitrates and Nitrites were bad, so I have always kept my levels at zero. I should mention that this is mostly by no doing of my own, just the way it has turned out. I have always tested zero since the tank has cycled, to the point I thought I had bad test kits until I tested my brother's FOWLR tank and confirmed the test kits were good. Since I had no detectable nutrients, I figured it was something else like maybe equipment such as lightning. I am coming to the conclusion that this is not the case based on my observations of other people pictures and comments on this forum.

I now have, as of yesterday, come to the conclusion my issue is the fact that I am running an Ultra Low Nutrient System (ULNS) and am not replenishing those nutrients. Up to this point I had been dosing ESV Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium and have more recently added Boron, Potassium, Strontium Chloride and Iron within the last two weeks without much of a result. I had also done Kent Marine Coralvite and Trace Elements in the past without much results.

Now I am thinking after doing all this I am still not getting something right since I am not getting the results/changes I am expecting. So, over the last week I have significantly increased the amount I am feeding, especially the coral with cyclop-eeze, and as of today have added the use of Aqua Vitro's Fuel which is a Vitamin and Amino Acid supplement. I believe a combination of all the things I am currently doing is the answer and wanted to get peoples opinions.

Currently all my tank Parameters are as follows:
ph: 8.2
alk: 7dkh
Phosphates: 0
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites: 0
Calcium: 450
Magnesium: 1400
temp: 77-79
salinity: 1.025

Thanks everyone!

tylersarah · Nov 5, 2012

Following, no input at this time.

bogg · Nov 6, 2012

More info please tank lights filtration bio load etc

Duc1098 · Nov 6, 2012

Marineland pro series 72" all in one (3x150w 10k mh, 8x39w t-5 actinic/pure actinic)

ADHI 60 refugium with 20lbs miracle mud and chaeto, also a nu-clear carbon filter (7lbs of carbon that I just took offline to see if that will have an affect)

ASM G4xx skimmer (empty the cup once every 3 weeks, might only be 2 weeks now with the much higher feeding rate)

Medium bioload (13 smaller fish, 25 small SPS, 5 softies, 3 LPS)

bobssecrtsn · Nov 6, 2012

What are you testing with?

spinsonic · Nov 6, 2012

you know... i'm dealing with the same issue. 6 months old tank, same water parameters as yours. my sps are not bleaching, its just slowly lose its color from the day i got them. I can see growth from the tips, but coloring is poor. Little polyp extension and usually when lights off. lighting is 10x 80w t5, with good flow via 2 vortech mp40es. Dosing ESV ALK, CA and MAG as well, along with Vodka and GFO

I just cant figure out whats going on. sps coloring is nothing near the pictures im seeing on RC. Following this thread....

Here is a video of how it looks. Sorry dont mean to hijack your thread... just feel we're in the same boat.

video quality isnt all that. taken from iphone5 camera. select watch in hd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6dA90tfxGo&feature=plcp

ph: 8.2
alk: 8.4dkh
Phosphates: .004
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites: 0
Calcium: 475
Magnesium: 1400
temp: 77-79
salinity: 1.025

hypnoj · Nov 6, 2012

following

Duc1098 · Nov 6, 2012

ph, alk, nitrite, and nitrate (seachem)

Calcium, Magnesium, potassium and Iodine (Salifert)

phosphates (newly aquired Hanna Checker with the most recent reading at .03ppm after two weeks of heavy feeding)

Allmost · Nov 6, 2012

ok so lets see if I got this right ....

corals are (SPS) browning, and not much PE ?

browning in corals, is a sign of excess nutrition, or exceess trace elements.

PE could be many reasons. but its good to adress the browning first, usually PE follows.

I would stop all extra additives, you do not need them.
sign of ULNS would be if corals were too pale, which seems like its not your case [ a pic could help alot as well]
the test results reading "undetectable" doesnt mean its zero, and it also doesnt mean there is no po4 in water, it just means its being condumed [perhaps by ure fuge].

after stopping other supplements, I would also cut down on feeding and see how the corals respond in the next coming days.

also, keep KH stable, and lower CA++ and MG++ as well, 420 and 1350 PPM respectively.

let us know how it goes

Mark 75g · Nov 6, 2012

Something does not sound right with the fact you are only emptying your skimmer every 3 weeks. I run a 3G on my 175gallon and it gets emptied every 3 days or so.

How often do you feed your fish and also your sps.

How old are your bulbs

Have you had any temp spikes

blackthunda77 · Nov 6, 2012

Are you running GFO in a reactor? If so, shut it down for a couple days.

Duc1098 · Nov 7, 2012

Allmost said:
ok so lets see if I got this right ....

corals are (SPS) browning, and not much PE ?

browning in corals, is a sign of excess nutrition, or exceess trace elements.

PE could be many reasons. but its good to adress the browning first, usually PE follows.

I would stop all extra additives, you do not need them.
sign of ULNS would be if corals were too pale, which seems like its not your case [ a pic could help alot as well]
the test results reading "undetectable" doesnt mean its zero, and it also doesnt mean there is no po4 in water, it just means its being condumed [perhaps by ure fuge].

after stopping other supplements, I would also cut down on feeding and see how the corals respond in the next coming days.

also, keep KH stable, and lower CA++ and MG++ as well, 420 and 1350 PPM respectively.

let us know how it goes

I am working on dropping magnesium and calcium, actually went to low on calcium and hit about 330 after reducing my daily dosing of ESV from 50ml to 35ml over a week time frame (sample on Sundays). Magenesium has held pretty much steady without any dosing. I have been trying to raise my Alk up to 8 over the last few weeks but cannot get it above 7.

As far as nutrients, other then test I have seen nothing else to lead me to believe I have to high of nutrients. The sand bed has stayed clean and I have no issues with any algae.

Thanks for the advice, I greatly appreciated.

Duc1098 · Nov 7, 2012

Mark 75g said:
Something does not sound right with the fact you are only emptying your skimmer every 3 weeks. I run a 3G on my 175gallon and it gets emptied every 3 days or so.

How often do you feed your fish and also your sps.

How old are your bulbs

Have you had any temp spikes

3 weeks is a very long time, but I believe being that the skimmer is oversized for the bioload and tank size with a large collection cup might have something to do with it. However, since I increased my feeding from 3-4 times per week every other day to twice daily (Cyclop-eeze in the morning for coral and Rods Food complete reef in the afternoon) it is looking like it's going to be 1.5-2 weeks. I just recently started this feed regime in the last two weeks.

Bulbs were replaced two months ago and I stick to replacing the t-5's every 6 months and the MH's every 9 months.

Duc1098 · Nov 7, 2012

blackthunda77 said:
Are you running GFO in a reactor? If so, shut it down for a couple days.

I did have some GFO mixed with my GAC the last time I changed it out about two months ago. It was the first time I have used it and I took that filter offline yesterday. Only thing is that I was having this issue since keeping SPS for the last year or so well before using GFO. I do have a large nu-clear 566 canister charcoal filter that holds seven pounds of GAC that has been running since I started keeping SPS. I took that whole system down to see how that will affect my SPS.

mc-cro · Nov 7, 2012

So, I am unclear, are the corals brown or pale?

brown is too much nutrients, but pale is too little usually.

lack of polyp extension is typically either pests, or starvation.

If corals are lacking food long enough, they will no longer extend their polyps.

I have kept corals in QT for too long with no fish or food, and they kind of stagnated with no color or polyp extension. Once put into the main tank, they can take several weeks to several months to regain polyp extenion and good color.

Mark 75g · Nov 7, 2012

What about temp swing. I just had this happen about 2 months ago. The tank reached appx 86 deg for about a week. I am finally getting color back. Everything pretty much turned to dull coloring.

Duc1098 · Nov 7, 2012

Duc1098 · Nov 7, 2012

Having difficulty posting pictures. I'll try again a little later today.

Allmost · Nov 7, 2012

you broke RC !!! hahah

from the pics, Id check closly for pests, and your nutritions show that they can go even lower.

remember, stable KH, CA and MG will also lower stress on corals, which in turn lets them color up

G4546 · Nov 7, 2012

Allmost said:
ok so lets see if I got this right ....

corals are (SPS) browning, and not much PE ?

browning in corals, is a sign of excess nutrition, or exceess trace elements.

PE could be many reasons. but its good to adress the browning first, usually PE follows.

I would stop all extra additives, you do not need them.
sign of ULNS would be if corals were too pale, which seems like its not your case [ a pic could help alot as well]
the test results reading "undetectable" doesnt mean its zero, and it also doesnt mean there is no po4 in water, it just means its being condumed [perhaps by ure fuge].

after stopping other supplements, I would also cut down on feeding and see how the corals respond in the next coming days.

also, keep KH stable, and lower CA++ and MG++ as well, 420 and 1350 PPM respectively.

let us know how it goes

Agreed. I would stop the use of all extra additives, for as Allmost stated "you do not need them."
On another note, it would be extremely hard for me to believe that a system using MM would have 0 across the board.
Continue to update us reguarding your progression!

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