SPS not looking good.

[nicholasb]

I have been reefing for 5 years so sort of know what I am doing. I have about 20 lps corals in my tank, all doing well under 6 t5 tubes. A dorassa clam growing well on the sand bed of my 2foot deep 150g tank. I have some sps which are suddenly bleaching out. A brown stylopra with has been in my tank for 3 years. A green pavona leaf coral 5 years old. Both are almost 100% gone. I have a brown birds nest that might be starting to go. My brown stag horn, is bleaching where the branch faces the light. All parameters seem o.k. Phosphate is below 0.03 with salient test kit. 14 fish and 2 shrimp seem fine. Replaced 2 tubes 3 weeks ago. I am using a mix of different makes of tubes. The new ones are DD powerchrome. I up graded my tank a few months ago and every thing looked fine. Lots of growth on my clam. All lps are fully open. Alk is 10, call is 400, mag is 1280. Temp is 80f, salinity is 35pot. Doing 5% weekly water change. The big difference with the new tank is it had sliding cover glass in the hood jug to prevent evaluation and protect the hood from condensation.

 

[slavetonet]

When you mentioned brown in alot of your words - there are problems that have been there for years.

Parameters don't seem right - send your water to Triton Lab or one of the chemically analysis company to get a whole picture.

 

[nicholasb]

When you mentioned brown in alot of your words - there are problems that have been there for years.

Parameters don't seem right - send your water to Triton Lab or one of the chemically analysis company to get a whole picture.

Why does it matter if the corals are brown. The pavona was green. They have always been those colours. All the lps are 100% fine.

.

 

[Reel North]

Check for aefw? Glass lids will cut your light big time. Alk seems a bit high, and mag and cal are a bit low.

Corals really aren't brown in aquariums.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

You didn't mention Nitrate, but with the super low Phosphate I'm assuming that's low as well. From my reading and personal experience, with low levels, low Nitrate/Phosphate you want low Alk (7-8). Cal is a little low but ok. Mag is low which could cause Alk/Cal to fluctuate more than they should.

I agree that sps should not be brown unless they are new or they're not happy.

 

[slavetonet]

Why does it matter if the corals are brown. The pavona was green. They have always been those colours. All the lps are 100% fine.

.

100% fine by your definition. But here you are asking the question on this forum.
Post a photo up of your corals.
Picture That everybody can look at. We will tell you if it is fine.

 

[nicholasb]

Fist 2 pictures show how corals looked in 100g tank last year.
Having trouble uploading some new pictures, so these are the only 2 have of current situation.
The stag horn was grown from a 1 inch frag over 3 years, so something in my tank must have been right, until the last week.

 

[slavetonet]

The last 2 photos tells me your corals isn't good.
What is your exact parameters?
Temperature
Salinity
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Nitrate
Phosphate
Potassium
Iron
Iodine
Strontium
Boron

These test you can find out for a hobbyists level.
I would be worry if your tank is starving and not enough N and P to support your sps growth. As sps grows, you need more nutrients to feed it like plants.

 

[Rakie]

Everything @Slavetonet says is correct, I have nothing to add to his advice other than make sure to follow up with those tests. And tell us the results, or we can't help you.

Here are my idea's / suggestions
1) That glass lid should be removed. They greatly affect PAR/PUR to corals.
2) Most all of your listed params are low. Calcium 440+, Mag 1400.
3) Nitrates and Phosphates are coral food. It's extremely likely you don't have enough of it. Nitrates 3-5ppm, Phos .03+
4) You say you have T5 -- Which bulbs? How old are the bulbs? Which fixture? How high off the water? Photoperiod?
5) Pests introduced possibly.

 

[nicholasb]

Everything @Slavetonet says is correct, I have nothing to add to his advice other than make sure to follow up with those tests. And tell us the results, or we can't help you.

Here are my idea's / suggestions
1) That glass lid should be removed. They greatly affect PAR/PUR to corals.
2) Most all of your listed params are low. Calcium 440+, Mag 1400.
3) Nitrates and Phosphates are coral food. It's extremely likely you don't have enough of it. Nitrates 3-5ppm, Phos .03+
4) You say you have T5 -- Which bulbs? How old are the bulbs? Which fixture? How high off the water? Photoperiod?
5) Pests introduced possibly.

Corals have been growing well with my parameters for 3 years so there can't be to much wrong with the parameters. I think they have not been doing so well lately, and then something has tipped them over the edge. Will be removing the glass covers, they are difficult to keep clean.
Why should it matter if cal is 400. According to Randy, it makes no difference what your cal and alk are, as long as they are in the safe zone of 380-450, and 7-12 dkh. Mag should be 1300ppm, so why do you say 1400. The sea over a coral reef can have phosphate levels as low as 0.005ppm, so why levels above 0.03. My nitrates are 1ppm. I am cleaning small amounts of algae of the glass every 5-7 days, so must have some phosphate in the water. I have added 2 more fish 3 weeks ago, and increased the amount of feeding, and levels of 'rowa phos' (GFO) slightly.
Tubes are DD power crome. I did change 2 of the tubes 4 weeks ago. The old tubes were a cheaper make but still worked well. Other tubes are 6 months old. 2* 55k, 1* 20k(blue white mix), 3* 14,500k. Lighting is staggered, over 10 hours, with all 6 tubes on for 6 hours. Lights are 4 inches above the water.
Thinking of doing a triton lab test. It is often very difficult to say why a corals dies, with so many things affecting there health. Thank you for any help, it is always greatly appreciated.

 

[nicholasb]

The last 2 photos tells me your corals isn't good.
What is your exact parameters?
Temperature
Salinity
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Nitrate
Phosphate
Potassium
Iron
Iodine
Strontium
Boron
Mag 1280ppm
cal 400ppm
phosphate below0.03ppm
dkh 10
temperature 80f (27c)
nitrate 1 ppm
salinity 35ppt

These test you can find out for a hobbyists level.
I would be worry if your tank is starving and not enough N and P to support your sps growth. As sps grows, you need more nutrients to feed it like plants.

 

[Rakie]

Corals have been growing well with my parameters for 3 years so there can't be to much wrong with the parameters. I think they have not been doing so well lately, and then something has tipped them over the edge. Will be removing the glass covers, they are difficult to keep clean.

Why should it matter if cal is 400. According to Randy, it makes no difference what your cal and alk are, as long as they are in the safe zone of 380-450, and 7-12 dkh. Mag should be 1300ppm, so why do you say 1400. The sea over a coral reef can have phosphate levels as low as 0.005ppm, so why levels above 0.03. My nitrates are 1ppm. I am cleaning small amounts of algae of the glass every 5-7 days, so must have some phosphate in the water. I have added 2 more fish 3 weeks ago, and increased the amount of feeding, and levels of 'rowa phos' (GFO) slightly.

Tubes are DD power crome. I did change 2 of the tubes 4 weeks ago. The old tubes were a cheaper make but still worked well. Other tubes are 6 months old. 2* 55k, 1* 20k(blue white mix), 3* 14,500k. Lighting is staggered, over 10 hours, with all 6 tubes on for 6 hours. Lights are 4 inches above the water.

Thinking of doing a triton lab test. It is often very difficult to say why a corals dies, with so many things affecting there health. Thank you for any help, it is always greatly appreciated.

Without trying to sound argumentative myself -- I want to emphasize that you're asking for help, and arguing with everyone who's trying to help you. This is a surefire way to ensure nobody ever helps you. I understand where you're coming from completely, so I'm not trying to judge or argue either! I'd be pretty annoyed if I were in your situation myself.

Triton Testing is worth doing once for sure -- Dave (o2manyfish) has spoken at my club meeting about them and they've discovered all types of things that have helped reefers with problems, from very uncommon and esoteric minerals missing in their systems, to rusty powerhead parts that are messing with water params. Not only that, but they will custom design nutrient packs specifically hand built for you and your aquarium.. It's a top tier service, it's not cheap, but with all the money we invest it's so worth it..

About your lights -- You might get better results adding in a few ATI Blue Plus bulbs. They have great PAR/PUR, and are at a great spectrum for corals. The ATI Coral Plus is also a great bulb. Both of these bulbs have been shown to greatly help SPS corals with color, growth, and fluorescence. DD bulbs might be perfectly fine, they might even be great.. but there's soo many great reviews from reefers using ATI, I'd think a few bulbs when you next replace your lights is a worthy investment.

Taking off your glass lids -- might solve your problem

There are a great many things that were unaware of in actual SW -- I'm aware most experts could easily retort this on paper, but I've yet to see a single one of them have a good looking reef at home, or in a lab. I'd be weary of chasing any NSW specifics by themselves as we don't have an ocean, we have an aquarium. There's a plethora of unaccounted organics and microfauna we are probably completely unaware of. It's also very likely that we can't replicate these conditions in the home environment.

Compared to our own aquarium environment for example -- A Phosphate of 0, doesn't mean there isn't phosphate in the system or ocean. It means there isn't excess phosphate. The actual amount of phosphates and nitrates being consumed in a reef must be staggering to support that level of life. The numbers in actual reefs are impossible to get in home aquaria. Another good example would be PAR. Typically on reefs in the ocean PAR is significantly higher than we can get in home aquaria, and getting near these numbers would absolutely nuke our home aquarium.

This will sound counter intuitive, and completely *** backwards -- But I've not seen many good results from trying to replicate true NSW levels across the board, and falling strictly on Biology (this coming from a student who LOVES biology...) The best SPS guru's here are typically far and away from NSW levels in some area or another.

Here's a list of amazing SPS guru's that fly in the face of Biology

Biggles for example has ASTOUNDING color and growth. One of the ways he achieves this is dosing copper which makes corals expel their Zooxanthellae. My entire life I've been told copper in even the smallest quantity will decimate and destroy reefs. That is very likely true in the ocean (Zooxanthellae protect corals from high sunlight), but completely untrue in home aquaria unless you reach extremely high levels.

Here's a thread with successful reefers dosing nitrates -- All of whom have noted exceptional results in growth, and color.

Here's a guy on another forum who keeps his Nitrates around 40 and Phosphates at .03 - .07 (This is his "im learning how to use my new camera" thread -- His growth and colors are astounding, though his camera work is still obviously developing)

Here's Dave (o2manyfish) and his high phosphate tank -- He works at and designs the systems at a little shop called Unique Corals (His phosphates were .32 in this post -- Not a typo)

What about high end boutique corals like Reef Raft? -- Well Reef Raft california is right down the street from me. I can walk in, check out $1000 colonies and shoot the breeze with top tier coral growers. The RR California distributor / grower / aquaculture guru was telling me he saw some great improvements by dosing nitrates. They like to keep their no3 at 10 nowadays.

So I feel where you're coming from, I do.. But all of these guys I listed aren't some Joe Schmoe down the street. They're top growers on the private & professional level who have astounding and absolutely noteworthy results. And all of them have achieved this by doing things that don't come naturally in the reef environment.

I really hope this helps man! I'd like to see this turn around and get some great colorful shots in the future.

 

[nicholasb]

Without trying to sound argumentative myself -- I want to emphasize that you're asking for help, and arguing with everyone who's trying to help you. This is a surefire way to ensure nobody ever helps you. I understand where you're coming from completely, so I'm not trying to judge or argue either! I'd be pretty annoyed if I were in your situation myself.

Triton Testing is worth doing once for sure -- Dave (o2manyfish) has spoken at my club meeting about them and they've discovered all types of things that have helped reefers with problems, from very uncommon and esoteric minerals missing in their systems, to rusty powerhead parts that are messing with water params. Not only that, but they will custom design nutrient packs specifically hand built for you and your aquarium.. It's a top tier service, it's not cheap, but with all the money we invest it's so worth it..

About your lights -- You might get better results adding in a few ATI Blue Plus bulbs. They have great PAR/PUR, and are at a great spectrum for corals. The ATI Coral Plus is also a great bulb. Both of these bulbs have been shown to greatly help SPS corals with color, growth, and fluorescence. DD bulbs might be perfectly fine, they might even be great.. but there's soo many great reviews from reefers using ATI, I'd think a few bulbs when you next replace your lights is a worthy investment.

Taking off your glass lids -- might solve your problem

There are a great many things that were unaware of in actual SW -- I'm aware most experts could easily retort this on paper, but I've yet to see a single one of them have a good looking reef at home, or in a lab. I'd be weary of chasing any NSW specifics by themselves as we don't have an ocean, we have an aquarium. There's a plethora of unaccounted organics and microfauna we are probably completely unaware of. It's also very likely that we can't replicate these conditions in the home environment.

Compared to our own aquarium environment for example -- A Phosphate of 0, doesn't mean there isn't phosphate in the system or ocean. It means there isn't excess phosphate. The actual amount of phosphates and nitrates being consumed in a reef must be staggering to support that level of life. The numbers in actual reefs are impossible to get in home aquaria. Another good example would be PAR. Typically on reefs in the ocean PAR is significantly higher than we can get in home aquaria, and getting near these numbers would absolutely nuke our home aquarium.

This will sound counter intuitive, and completely *** backwards -- But I've not seen many good results from trying to replicate true NSW levels across the board, and falling strictly on Biology (this coming from a student who LOVES biology...) The best SPS guru's here are typically far and away from NSW levels in some area or another.

Here's a list of amazing SPS guru's that fly in the face of Biology

Biggles for example has ASTOUNDING color and growth. One of the ways he achieves this is dosing copper which makes corals expel their Zooxanthellae. My entire life I've been told copper in even the smallest quantity will decimate and destroy reefs. That is very likely true in the ocean (Zooxanthellae protect corals from high sunlight), but completely untrue in home aquaria unless you reach extremely high levels.

Here's a thread with successful reefers dosing nitrates -- All of whom have noted exceptional results in growth, and color.

Here's a guy on another forum who keeps his Nitrates around 40 and Phosphates at .03 - .07 (This is his "im learning how to use my new camera" thread -- His growth and colors are astounding, though his camera work is still obviously developing)

Here's Dave (o2manyfish) and his high phosphate tank -- He works at and designs the systems at a little shop called Unique Corals (His phosphates were .32 in this post -- Not a typo)

What about high end boutique corals like Reef Raft? -- Well Reef Raft california is right down the street from me. I can walk in, check out $1000 colonies and shoot the breeze with top tier coral growers. The RR California distributor / grower / aquaculture guru was telling me he saw some great improvements by dosing nitrates. They like to keep their no3 at 10 nowadays.

So I feel where you're coming from, I do.. But all of these guys I listed aren't some Joe Schmoe down the street. They're top growers on the private & professional level who have astounding and absolutely noteworthy results. And all of them have achieved this by doing things that don't come naturally in the reef environment.

I really hope this helps man! I'd like to see this turn around and get some great colorful shots in the future.

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. Clearly it is difficult to tell what's going on in a reef tank, and I am asking to much to just find a simple answer. I have never tried to aim for natural sea water parameters, simply because it is not necessary, and to much hard work. I have seen many successful reef tank with very low nitrates, and phosphates. I have also seen the tank of marine biologist Richard Ross, who's SPS tank has 100ppm nitrates, and 1ppm phosphates. Clearly there is no right or wrong here, and different nutrient levels, will work better in different tanks. I think some environmental change caused my S.P.S to suffer suddenly, but they were not in the best of shape in the first place. May be due the corals just not liking the current parameters. This hobby is so difficult at times. Covers are off, have changed the carbon, and using slightly less GFO. thanks again for your help, will work through some of your ideas.

 

[Rakie]

No problem, I hope it helps! And you're dead right.. Reef aquariums are quite complicated, and they can't tell us whats wrong. There's countless ways to do things right, and those same things may be wrong in another's tank for reasons we don't quite understand.

Just keep inspecting and implementing one change at a time. I have no doubt you'll resolve this issue.