Square back anthia in qt. possibly has flukes.

[greg1786]

Ok im going to do another dose of epsom salts tonight after work. Then tomorrow he will get his second round of prazi. As of last night his eye looked worse. The little spot that looked like a worm had turned black and part of the area around it on the swollen tissue was peeling off. Being that ive never had a fish with popeye before, im not sure if this is normal or not? Im getting a bit worried because the last fish i had with flukes recovered much quicker. Knowing that there are many different species of flukes, im hoping its just a stronger type im dealing with and he will begin recovering soon. His fins look significantly better as does his overall appearence with exception to the eye. Hes still not eating though and as i mentioned before still pooping white. Im trying to stay patient because I dont want to put him through anti biotic treatment if its not necessary. In the event that I do have to go that route, is the api powder that you linked for me from drs foster and smith the best medication i can give him? Thanks again btw for everything i cant tell you how much i appreciate all the help you e given me, its been quite theraputic in calming my otherwise frantic mind!!

 

[HumbleFish]

Np, I'm happy to help. You saying part of his eye is now turning black is disturbing. That makes me wonder if an infection has started. However, the stringy white poop indicates he is still being afflicted by internal parasites of some sort. I would do another dose of epsom salt and then another round of Prazi. If you're still seeing stringy white poop after that, I would switch over to the API General Cure. And it also might be time to think about antibiotics (i.e. erythromycin, Furan-2) for the eye. Understand the risk of death goes up significantly once you cross this threshold. Which is why I like to start out with the least invasive meds and then work up to those which are more aggressive (but also more risky).

 

[greg1786]

Well heres a fun fact. I added a second hob filter to my qt the day i bought the anthia and set it up to supplement my already running hob. Well i just realized my dumb @$$ left the bio bag (carbon)in the new filter. So basically this whole time ive been stressing about why this fish isnt healing has been all my fault. I cannot tell you how upset i am with myself right now. I am so anal and pay so much attention to detail when it comes to my tank my gf finds it sickening sometimes, how the hell could i miss such a simple thing. Needless to say i removed the carbon immediately and added the correct dose of prazi pro so hopefull things will start to turn around for this poor fish that ive allowed to suffer because of a GIANT mistake i overlooked. And to boot, there are four white stringy things now growing out of the side of the fish just above his gill line which im assuming are worms. Well i will update you tomorrow i hope i didnt allow this poor fish to go essentially untreated for too long.

 

[HumbleFish]

The carbon would have taken all the Prazi out of the water, but not the epsom salt. Consider today your first round of Prazi; another round will needed 5-6 days from now. Don't beat yourself up too hard, we all screw up sometimes.

 

[greg1786]

Im still pretty ticked this morning about the whole situation, but since getting angry isnt going to help the situation im gonna forget about it and treat it just like you said, like this is the first day of treatment( since it essentially is). When a fish has flukes is it normal for worms to appear growing out of the side of the fish? They are not small like ive seen before, each one comes about 1/4" out of the fishes scales. I got a picture of it though it is really cloudy because the fish kept moving and turning his side to me that didnt have the worms. Check out the picture and tell me what you think.

 

[HumbleFish]

There are many different types of Flukes/worms which afflict fish. You just have to hope yours is treatable by Prazi; if not then it's time to try something more aggressive/risky (i.e. formalin, metro). One thing you can do to confirm Flukes is give a f/w bath. I've been hesitant to suggest this, as it is not without risk (especially if you've never done one before). Basically, you use RODI f/w, and make certain both the temp & pH match perfectly to the tank you will be taking the fish from. Use a clear glass container and aerate heavily. Put the fish in the glass container for no more than 5 mins. The fish may freak a little - this is fine; if it freaks too much abort the f/w dip. If the fish has Flukes, you should see tiny little white things (Flukes turn white in f/w) drop out of it's gills and settle to the bottom within 3-4 mins. This also provides the fish with immediate relief, but a Prazi treatment (or two) is still required to kill the "next generation" from any eggs left behind.

 

[greg1786]

Ok. I am going to be patient and give it a few more days now that i know hes actually getting the medication in the absence of the carbon. I am with you in the hopes that the prazi will take care of the problem and i wont have to use anti biotics or fw dip and put more stress on him than necessary. I am concerned about the white strings growing on the side of his face though. I posted a picture(albeit not a great one) but you can get the idea from seeing it. They are about 1/4" long and ive noticed since theyve appeared he has been shaking his head more frequently and kind of violently like hes trying to shake them off. Have you ever seen something like that before?

 

[HumbleFish]

The pic is kinda blurry/grainy, but I have seen what looks like worms hanging out of a fish's gills before. Sometimes they disappear after Prazi treatment; sometimes it takes formalin or a f/w dip; sometimes nothing works and the fish dies. It really comes down to trial & error as there are so many different species of Flukes/worms. I think you are on the right path for now. But be prepared to take more aggressive steps if Prazi doesn't fix this.

 

[greg1786]

The anthia looks significantly bettern tonight. The damage around his eye has improved a bit and the worms on the side of his gill line has diminished in size and there are only two left. His fins are about 75% healed as well. Im beginnning to become concerned about him not eating though. How long can he go without eating before it effects his health and weight? He is a very large anthia and was very fat when I purchased him. His stomach is starting to show small signs of shrinking. Also his next dose of prazi will be wednesday but in the meantime, as water is evaporating and im topping off twice daily, does this affect the level of concentration of the prazi? Should i be adding prazi to my topoff water? I also added a second round of epsom salts sunday. Should i add more tuesday or let it ride? Sorry about all the questions

 

[HumbleFish]

No need to add Prazi to topoff (Prazi doesn't evaporate). I would go ahead and do another round of epsom salt today. Also, you will need to do a 25% WC before the next dose of Prazi.

Most fish can go 2 weeks without eating before it starts to affect their health. But an anthias has a high metabolism, so you may have less than that. Prazi can be an appetite suppressant, but it's a necessary evil at this point. After the 2nd dose of Prazi, your top priority has got to be getting that fish to eat before continuing with any other medications (if necessary).

 

[greg1786]

I saw a post here on RC last week that had a video linked to it for tube feeding. It was very informative. Showed a guy using a tranquilizer mixed with saltwater to calm the fish enough to take it out of the water a feed him using a syringe with a rigid tube on the end. Obviously ill try other methods first to try to entice him to eat. Ill try soaking different foods and what not but I am interested on what your feelings are on tube feeding if necessary. Is it relatively difficult to do without injuring the fish?

 

[HumbleFish]

I saw a post here on RC last week that had a video linked to it for tube feeding. It was very informative. Showed a guy using a tranquilizer mixed with saltwater to calm the fish enough to take it out of the water a feed him using a syringe with a rigid tube on the end. Obviously ill try other methods first to try to entice him to eat. Ill try soaking different foods and what not but I am interested on what your feelings are on tube feeding if necessary. Is it relatively difficult to do without injuring the fish?

That sounds like alprazo. I would PM him and get his thoughts on tube feeding a fish. He's a nice guy and always willing to help. (I've never tube fed a fish before and thus, have no experience.)

Looking back over this thread, it looks like you bought this fish a week ago and it hasn't eaten since. IMO, you've got another week or so to try to entice it before you need to start panicking. I'm assuming you've tried the usuals: frozen brine, mysis. Any access to live food where you live? Live blackworms are hard for most carnivores to resist. And I'll probably get in trouble for suggesting this :spin1:, but you could try a small feeder guppy or something if the anthias is large enough to swallow it.

 

[greg1786]

Ive tried frozen brine, mysis, nls pellets, and flakes. Ive tried soaking it in a supplement than is supposed to stimulate appetite and replenish electrolytes but you know how these "miracle" supplements are. Ill try soakin in some garlic. I have a few lfs who carry live brine, live blackworms, live ghost shrimp, and guppys. I will measure him tonight but if I had to take a shot in the dark hes prob somewhere between 4.5-5.5" and his mouth is pretty large. Ive never fed blackworms before is there anything special about them care wise or feeding wise? Do i just buy a few and drop em in the tank?

 

[HumbleFish]

Ive never fed blackworms before is there anything special about them care wise or feeding wise? Do i just buy a few and drop em in the tank?

They need to be kept in an open glass or tupperware container in the fridge (wife will not be happy). Change out their water about once a week. They are an excellent food source for s/w fish - very high in protein.

If he's that large, a guppy might also work. Or the live ghost shrimp or brine. I kinda don't like live brine because I'm paranoid about them being in s/w and the risk of cross contamination from related parasites. Just keep trying until he eats something.

 

[greg1786]

I stopped at home very quickly after work before heading back out and the anthia was actively cruising the tank for the first time. I managed to get a pic of the current condition of his eye. It looks much better to me but id like to get your opinion on it

 

[greg1786]

I tried to feed some frozen spirinula enriched brine shrimp to him last night. Even though he did not eat there was some encouragement. He showed some interest in the food, clearly swimming to it and checking it out like he was going to eat it but never did. Im hoping tonight he may actually eat. I know there is no real scientific proof of garlic actually enticing a fish to eat but im going to try soaking some brine in it tonight anyhow. I figure nothing else has worked to this point so ill give it a shot. Im also going to do a 25% water change and give him his second round of prazi so ill update you after ive done all of that

 

[HumbleFish]

The eye does look a little better. I think the smell/scent of garlic probably entices fish to eat. I get my Mandarins to eat pellets by soaking them in garlic - the pellets not the Mandarins . Stay the course and keep me apprised.

 

[greg1786]

Before heading out for work today I looked in the tank to check out the anthia. The lights were still off at this point so I will have to wait until I get off to post a picture but all of the swelling was 100% gone around his eye. The only problem is, whatever was in his eye bothering it cause him to lose it. The area where his eye should be is completely black and there is no lense. Im pretty ticked off about it because im wondering if I hadnt been running the carbon during the first treatment if maybe he wouldnt have had the eye issue at all. Is it detrimental to the fishes health to be without an eye? I imagine it will be tough for him to navigate around my 125 gal DT once he gets done treatment given the fact he will only have vision on one side of his body

 

[HumbleFish]

A lot of fish do fine with just one eye in an aquarium environment. In the wild, it would be a death sentence, as only the strong survive... but in an aquarium he'll get a steady supply of food without even having to look for it. And you can always target feed him if competition from the other fish proves to be too much.

As for what to do now; are you sure the eye is completely gone? I'm wondering if antibiotic treatment might still help. Problem is treating with antibiotics will likely further suppress his appetite. Has he eaten anything yet?

 

[greg1786]

I would say im more than 70% sure its eye is gone but it was dark in the tank so its certainly possible i am wrong. As soon as i get home from work ill post a picture. He still has yet to eat as well . I am thinking i may need antibiotics but i am going to let the prazi work a few more days before pulling the trigger since he got his second dose last night.