Square back anthia in qt. possibly has flukes.

[greg1786]

Well i think its time to take another approach. While the swelling around the eye is still gone, the worms around his gill line that had receeded are back again. I guess my next move is to order the api antibiotics you recommended? Also he is still not taking any food soaked in garlic or not. Im getting very worried that im going to lose him. The only encouraging aspect is that he remains somewhat active swimming around the qt.

 

[HumbleFish]

Well i think its time to take another approach. While the swelling around the eye is still gone, the worms around his gill line that had receeded are back again. I guess my next move is to order the api antibiotics you recommended? Also he is still not taking any food soaked in garlic or not. Im getting very worried that im going to lose him. The only encouraging aspect is that he remains somewhat active swimming around the qt.

If two rounds of Prazi hasn't knocked these worms out, then the prognosis is grim. API General Cure is a metro/prazi combo, and is probably your best bet. You can sometimes find it at Petco/Petsmart; I would get it ASAP if you can. The only other thing that might help is dimilin - but that is mostly used for anchor worms.

 

[greg1786]

Ok i will try petco and petsmart when i get off of work at 4. Do i need to do a large water change and run carbon to get the prazi out before i run the antibiotics?

 

[HumbleFish]

Ok i will try petco and petsmart when i get off of work at 4. Do i need to do a large water change and run carbon to get the prazi out before i run the antibiotics?

Wouldn't hurt, but not required. Prazi only remains active for around 48-72 hrs. The WC before the second dose is to prevent an ammonia spike from the dying Flukes.

 

[greg1786]

I have GREAT news!!!! I went to my lfs (not the one who sold me the anthia) and talked to the owner two hours ago. I told him the whole situation and that i needed the api antibiotics. He said he didnt carry the antibiotics but that i should try feeding guppies like you had recommended a few days ago. Well i got home and he was pooping brown for the first time since i got him! Not only that but he ate three guppies in about two minutes!! Im going to do a large water change now. My question is since hes made this turn around would it make sense to continue with the prazi? I was thinking that maybe i should try a double dose of prazi since the only symptom showing now is the few worms around the gill line??

 

[HumbleFish]

That's good news about the guppy. Anthias are carnivores, so anything live & meaty should appeal to them. The API General Cure contains praziquantel, which is the active ingredient found in Prazipro. So, it's like continuing treating with Prazi. But it also contains metronidazole, which has both antiparasitic and antibiotic properties. I'm not 100% sure it's going to fix this problem... but it's the next logical step in the process. A f/w or formalin dip might also help. It's down to trial and error at this point.

 

[greg1786]

Ok ive ordered the API general cure. Im heading back to the lfs tomorrow for some guppies and live black worms. What do you recommend I do about feeding? Should i keep the guppies in a small tank with an air stone and keep a few in the qt at all times replenishing them as he eats? Or should i only be feeding him these types of foods every few days? I added some more tonight and he immediately went for them, stuffing his mouth with three at one time. He ended up not being able to eat them all at once so he spit two out and once he finished the one, the other two were dead snd he no longer showed interest in them since they didnt swim around. Id like to wean him off the guppies and onto frozen brine and pellets since thats what i feed my DT but not sure how to go about this. Any tricks or tips you can give me? There is still two small worms on the side of his head that havent gone away so while I wait for the quick cure to arrive, im going to try a freshwater dip tomorrow. How long should i leave him in for and other than matching ph and temp is there anything in particular i need to do or expect? Id also like to note for you that he has become extremely active. No longer hiding behind the pvc or under the heater or filters. Other than when hes sleeping he is constantly patroling the tank and becoming quite comfortable and social with me when I stand in front of the tank.

 

[HumbleFish]

Anthias have high metabolisms, so feeding 2-3x daily is best. Maybe feed him a couple of guppies in the morning, and then some blackworms in the evening. But don't overfeed; he doesn't need to have access to food all the time. Weaning him will probably be difficult until after this worm/infection problem has cleared up. He probably doesn't feel very good right now, so you're lucky he's even eating at all. I would do the f/w dip for no more than 5 mins. A formalin bath might actually be more useful at this point (you can just pickup "Quick Cure" from Walmart). But formalin is nasty ****, so this is not without risk.

 

[greg1786]

Ok. Im considering the formalin bath but before I do so, what is the percentage for mortality? I understand this is prob very broad and ttoo general a question a question but if you had to take a shot in the dark with where my anthia is at health wise, would you say a formalin bath has a 50% chance of killing him? Less? More? I am a little aprehensive only because i feel like hes come a long way and after all hes been through and the close care ive given him i have grown quite attached to the little guy. Id hate to dip him and kill him in three or four minutes.

 

[HumbleFish]

Ok. Im considering the formalin bath but before I do so, what is the percentage for mortality? I understand this is prob very broad and ttoo general a question a question but if you had to take a shot in the dark with where my anthia is at health wise, would you say a formalin bath has a 50% chance of killing him? Less? More? I am a little aprehensive only because i feel like hes come a long way and after all hes been through and the close care ive given him i have grown quite attached to the little guy. Id hate to dip him and kill him in three or four minutes.

I can't put an exact number on it because all fish react differently to formalin. The odds are in your favor... unless, of course, you happen to have that oddball fish that just can't take formalin for some unknown reason. If you do it, aerate heavily and pull him at the first sign of distress. Recently, some have reported success using formalin to treat Flukes. So it's possible it might also work on whatever worms your fish has.

 

[greg1786]

I went to walmart and picked up a new bottle of quick cure because mine is prob 7 years old. There isnt a ton of info out there about how to use this product as a dip. I read in most cases if you can get straight formalin to treat for 40-60 minutes using a concetration of 1ml/ gallon of water. The issue with the quick cure is the malachite green seems to pose a problem. I was very unsure if I could still use the 1ml/ gallon so i followed the directions on the bottle. It said 1 "drop" per gallon. I measured out the drops in a syringe and it ended up being .25ml to four gallons. He is the dip right now its been about ten minutes and hes doing great. I have an airstone, therm., heater, hydrometer, and one of those little ten gallon filters that sit inside the tank. Im hoping he will make it the full 60 minutes but im keeping close eye just in case i need to pull him. My ONLY concern right now is that im using an improper dose. Ill return him to qt after the bath until I hear from you tomorrow. Perhaps you know if I can use the quick cure at the formalin onlydose of 1ml/ gallon? If so, or even if its less than that but more than what i currently did, ill try again tmw if this is not successful. Actually if this doesnt work tonight ill try a freshwater dip when I wake up and then when I hear from you, perhaps another quick cure dip in the evening. OR who knows maybe ill get lucky and this will work. I assume my general cure will be here wed or thurs so i want to rule out every other option before then. Will update tomorrow in morning if there was any change over night

 

[HumbleFish]

No one seems to know for sure how much formaldehyde is contained in Quick Cure. Formalin-MS, the gold standard (but difficult to find unless you order online), contains 37%. I'm guessing Quick Cure is less than that. So I would just follow the directions on the bottle and dip for 1 hr. Seems like your anthias handled it well.

F/w dip would probably be my next move, followed by the API General Cure. It's all trial & error without a positive diagnosis.

 

[greg1786]

He actually handled it pretty well. I pulled him at 52 minutes because he started going on his side. When i transfered him back to qt he was a little dazed almost like he was dizzy for a few mins but that corrected itself pretty quickly. The worms on the side of his head seemed pretty defeated by the medication they were all shrunk up and looked like they were dying. When I get home from work tonight im definitely going to fw dip him. I think what i need to do is break the qt tank down and sterilize it while the anthia is in the fw bath. Im just thinking that if the quick cure or fw dip is helping, and im putting him back into an infested tank its just going to keep the worms life cycle going. My question is, if i do this, can i use 100% freshly mixed saltwater to put the anthia back in or will that be detrimental to his health? Does he need to have an established bio filter or healthy bacteria in the water to survive

 

[HumbleFish]

"Freshly mixed saltwater" is fine, so long as it has been mixed for at least 24 hrs somewhere. You don't necessarily need a bio filter in QT, but without one you are looking at regular WCs to keep the ammonia in check.

 

[greg1786]

These worms really have me befuddled. After doing a fw dip last night i figured out that he definitely had flukes because quite a bit fell off in the bowl but it did nothing to the worms. What are the chances these are anchor worms? My general cure came in today as well so ill most likely try that after work

 

[Newsmyrna80]

As Humblefish can attest I fought flukes for 6 weeks. I did many rounds of Prazipro to no avail. I ended up doing a 45 minute bath in Quick Cure on a Flame Angel. He did great through the dip. I put him in a brand new tank and sterilized his first one. I didn't think he was going to make it. Two days later I put him back in the sterilized tank. Next day he showed signs of flukes again. I dosed with Prazipro 2 more times. Did a couple of FW dips and waited 2 weeks. He is finally fluke free. I will say that getting a microscope answered a lot of questions and helped with the treatment.

 

[HumbleFish]

Yup, seems to be some "super" Flukes or worms going around lately. I know a guy who is on his 4th round of Prazi, and that still hasn't knocked a case of Flukes completely out. He does a f/w dip the day before the next dose and they just keep falling out of the gills.

To the OP: What I saw in your pics didn't look like anchor worms to me, but anything is possible at this point. Dimilin is what everyone uses to treat anchor worms. But I would try Newsmyrna's approach before using Dimilin. And use the API General Cure.

 

[greg1786]

Newsmyrna- thanks for the info. If you look back through my thread, i posted a picture of small white worms embedded in the side of my anthias head. Did you encounter similar worms? Regardless of that, after a ton of prazi he still has flukes like in your situation. A fw dip last night confirmed that for me. Just to be sure im understanding correctly, how many formalin baths did your fish get? I like the idea of sterilizing his tank during the dip to ensure nothing is left behind in the qt if i successfuly kill off the flukes via the bath. When you used quick cure, what ration per gallon of meds did you use? I followed the directions on the bottle using one drop per gallon but after some research it seems people recommend a much higher concentration of formalin. Not to mention the inaccuracy of a "drop".

Humblefish- I know the picture i posted of the worms was pretty grainy making it tough to get a good look. After reading about anchor worms quite a bit, and speaking a little with alprazo, the reason im entertaining this possibility is two fold. One being that they appear to be embedded under the scales of the fish as opposed to coming from its gills. And two being that after some research, it appears anchor worms are a crustacean which sorta makes me think that could be why nothing has affected them up to this point. Its just a theory but perhaps the crustaceous outter shell is protecting them from the prazi, formalin, and fw bath. What is your stance on attempting manual removal with a magnifying glass and small pharmacutical foreceps? Thanks again to hoth of you for all the help through this point. Its becoming quite the painstaking process

 

[greg1786]

Bump.... Guys?

 

[HumbleFish]

What is your stance on attempting manual removal with a magnifying glass and small pharmacutical foreceps?

IME, performing any kind of "surgery" on fish usually doesn't end well and should only be attempted as a last resort. Has the General Cure had any impact on the problem?