Starting a Seahorse Tank - Size Questions

[rjarnold]

My long-term goal is to get a couple of breeding pairs of the Sunburst variety from Ocean Riders (Hawaii-based). I want to be able to raise fry and help support the desire for people to have captive-bred, healthy, frozen-food eating seahorses

Anyways - to start right, I was hoping to just go with a 30G tank. I realize the water parameters take longer to get out of wack with a larger tank (I currently have a 75G and a 20G, have done both fresh and saltwater for many years). There was a cute little bowfront 26G for sale, and it doesn't have that stupid divider bar at the top (I want a pretty large refugium to hang off the back), and it's 21" tall, meeting the 20" minimum. There's also a 38 that's 21" tall, and a 45 that's 24" tall. I like that the 45 is 24" tall, but that's mucho $$ in sand and live rock (and it still has the stupid divider). Plus, since I'm a renter, the smaller, the easier to transport. At the same time, I want to have *optimal conditions* for breeding. All this is weighing in heavily on my decision for just what tank to get - and while I definitely have a desire to run out there and buy one so I can start the cycling process, I want to make sure that I won't regret it in the future.

I do not *think* filtration will be much of a problem in even as small as a 26G tank...this is why: I will have plenty of live rock, live sand, a good filter which I will probably debate long and hard about later, a protein skimmer, a really good 'cleaning crew', uv sterilizer, and a refugium. The tank will be cycled and I have a couple of damsels that have been in my 75G for 8mo+ now that can be used to make sure ammonia is being taken care of properly. I also have good compact fluorescent lighting with separate blue and daylight bulbs that have individual cords to be on separate timers - this would fit that 26G nicely

There will be a ton of other stuff I wish to have input on in the future, but for now I would just like to get a darn tank up and cycling!

Btw - what filters DO you use with your seahorses (please include tank size)? And does anyone know how well the skimmers that are built in to hang-on refugiums work? The refugium I'm interested in is - http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/CPR_refug.htm
(the large is the only one that comes with a skimmer)

Thanks!

 

[fishymann]

a 30G will be okay for a pair but i wouldn't suggest much more than 2 for that size. I have a 37 gallon and use a 20 gallon sump with about 45lbs of rock and 60lbs of sand (between both the sump and display) good luck!

 

[rjarnold]

Thanks for your reply - that's interesting that you wouldn't recommend more horses as the website for ocean riders say you can do up to 10 pair in a 25G! I would definitely like something that could hold at least 4 total.

 

[fishymann]

10 PAIR IN 25GALLONS?! you've gotta be kidding me. even one pair in a 25 i believe is pushing it. 40 or greater would probably be good for 4 pairs, if you could add a sump you'll be best off, for example if you went with a 37 gallon display (great size tank i gotta say) and a 20 or greater sized sump you'll have enough water volume to handle the messy life style of a seahorse and accomidate for their size.

 

[rjarnold]

Maybe they were talking about pygmy's or some other smaller type of seahorse? I'm not sure - you'd think they'd know though. But if that's the case you'd think they'd specify that

 

[ann83]

Um, I don't know where you found that stocking info on the ocean rider web site. In this link it says 3 pair in 30 gallons http://www.seahorse.com/Frequently_Asked_Questions/Aquarium_Life/Aquarium_Density?/, and I think that is even overstocking. I agree with fisymann, one pair for a 26 gallon, three pair if you get the 45 gallon. Seahorses don't have a complex digestive system so they produce a lot of waste for their small bodies, and not having a sump or large fuge is really going to limit your stocking capabilities. An HOB fuge is better than nothing, but it doesn't really hold a lot of water or biofiltration.
Also, remember to take the sandbed into account when calculating height. You'll want 18" of WATER, minimum, for proper breeding.

 

[rjarnold]

Yeah, I *thought* that sounded like a bit much, but here's the stocking info:
Tank height: 20 inches minimum is recommended
Tank Volume and Stocking capacity: 10 gallons for 2 to 4 individuals, 25 gallon for 4 to 10 individuals, 55 gallon for 10 to 15
100 gallon for 15 to 25, 150 gallon for 20 to 30
Link: http://www.seahorse.com/Aquarium_Life/Aquarium_Life/Getting_Started/

I've pretty much decided to go with an aquarium I looked at today (but didn't yet buy) - it's 45G and 24" tall - should be good I think =D Then put a hang-on refugium on the back.

Preferences for skimmers and filters that do well with Seahorses? I'm really interested in the wet/dry filters but have never used them...

 

[rjarnold]

I am also wondering where people have purchased their *captive-bred* seahorses in the past, and their experiences with those places.

 

[ann83]

10 individuals is only 5 pairs, not 10 pairs, but that is still way too much for a 25 gallon, and it contradicts much of what they say on the rest of their site.
Many people are getting their seahorses from www.seahorsesource.com and www.dracomarine.org, they are both legitimate aquaculture facilities and I haven't heard a bad review about either of them. Their sh are very healthy and are truly captive bred in closed systems.

 

[rjarnold]

Oops, sorry about that 10 pair / 10 seahorses. I will check out those other places as well. Thanks for the info Ann!

 

[rjarnold]

Both of those sites do not sell mated pairs - is it easy enough to buy, say, two males and two females, and hope that they'll pair up?

Also, I read on the Ocean Rider site that H. kuda isn't the best beginner species - do you recommend sticking with H. erectus? What about H. reidi?

Thanks again

 

[fishymann]

i love my erectus so i would say go with them for sure. For a true "mated" pair your going to spend an extreme price. i had great luck with dracomarine, jorge is great and if you ask for a pair chances are he'll do his best to see if they'r a mated pair or not.

 

[ann83]

There is a really good chance that if you buy a male and a female that they will breed. Seahorses are the rabbits of the aquarium, very horny. And while sometimes they pair bond, they don't mate for life and may also mate with other seahorses in the aquarium as well. Paying for a mated pair is a lot like paying for color, its BS. Seahorses change color, and they change partners.
As for species, if you want to try your hand at raising fry, southern erectus are the easiest. They are a hardy species and their fry are benthic so they hitch at birth. Seahorse source sells southern erectus, Draco typically sells northern (which are much harder to raise) but I believe Jorge has southern as well, you just have to specifically ask for them. There is usually a waiting list for erectus with Dan (seahorse source), but if you get on it now, you still have to wait for your tank to be ready anyway. Reidi and Kuda are great species too, if you get them from a reputable source, but their fry, like northern erectus, are much harder to raise.

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9976033#post9976033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rjarnold
Both of those sites do not sell mated pairs

You'll notice neither of those sites sell based on color either. Selling mated pairs and selling based on color is a gimick used to get more money out of the informed customer. It's a sham.

Seahorses do not mate for life they are not monogamous, and they change color based on the surroundings.

IMO I would not do business with a company that knowingly marketed it's product to take advantage of the ignorant, but that's just me.

IMO any CB kuda woul dmake a great starter horse, although there fry is more diffucult to rear then erectus.

 

[rjarnold]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I was really lucky and found a nice 45G (24"tall) aquarium with stand and canopy for only $75 =D In really good shape too. Getting the live rock soon and looking for sand. I will look into getting on a list - I'm sure they could pass me up if needed, but I want the tank absolutely perfect before bringing them home.

 

[rjarnold]

Status update:

My 45G is up and running with live sand and live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. This is uncured and full of living organisms (the good with the bad)! I'm pretty amazed at how 'alive' it is in comparison with cured live rock. Albeit, there are quite a few trade-off's for having the uncured stuff - I've got to watch for and catch mantis shrimp, gorilla crabs, and stone crabs, as well as anything else that happens to be in there that may be unsafe for seahorses. I think the usual time for cycling is 1-2 months for cured live rock, so I'm planning on waiting until September after I move (since I *know* I'll be moving and don't want to stress the horses with that) to get the SH. I'm having fun just looking at all the cool stuff that came with the 1st shipment of rock


Oh, and definitely planning on going with the southern erectus

I bought a 25G sump but it doesn't fit in the stand :\ Not a huge deal since I'm going to use it on my 75G instead, but I'd really like a sump! I've got plenty of 10 and 20G tanks lying around, but I'm a pretty horrible DIY person

 

[rjarnold]

Few more questions...

I have heard that seahorse females can be very...well lets say they are the typical males (oops, am I stereotyping guys?! ) and mate with a male, leave their eggs, and go on to the next male and do the same thing. So...I would imagine 3 to 1 is a bit hard, but what about a ratio of 2 to 1, males to females? Thoughts?

Also, as my tank slowly cycles in, I'm going to be setting up a sump with refugium. I want to get a good copepod population going, but what about these other wonderful things that are sold at some of the online seahorse places such as seahorse source and ocean riders? Is there any danger of having live copepods in the tank to the point that the seahorses will start preferring them and stop eating the thawed mysis shrimp?

Also - what supplements for the frozen mysis have worked best for you? What medications should I have prior to getting the seahorses in case one falls sick?

 

[rjarnold]

*bump*

Seahorse.org is a pretty nice source, though currently I still cannot see most of the forum even after having registered. They do have a good guide though that displays which medications to have on hand - as a long-time keeper of seahorses, do you feel all these are necessary to have on hand? Knowing me, I'll be extra cautious and just get all of them AND the optional ones...but I was just wondering what experience people here have had.

Still want opinions on what to put in the Sump!!