Steps to BB?

hurly, my long winded maintenance explanation = about 1/2hr-1 hr each week. that's the whole deal right there. it is easy once you get on top. some weeks I can't even find enough dust to siphon so I just do the waterchange. the bb idea is less maintenance, but more often.

the time bomb is that eventually something has to be done with the sandbed.


seriously, I think the balance is trickier to hit with the BB. it is easy to go from nutrient poor to nutrient rich quickly, but once you get in the groove, the system should run indefinitely with no major upsets needed ever.
 
In my 125 gallon wich holds about 80gallons of water, with only 15 pounds of live rock is doing great! It is bb by the way.

I run a reef octopuss nw-rc-200. Its an ok skimmer, but i feel it does not push enough air to push large particle out of the skimmer. So what i did was add a collection bag to the exit of the skimmer. I rinse it daily and it collects a little.

Imo beckets have much more power to push the dirt out. My only thoughts on beckets are that detritus gets stuck in the bottom of the box. And with the precision marine kind, the box is colored at the bottom, so you cant see what is going on. This is my reason for the RO skimmer. Dirt does not collect in the bottom, well not as much as the PM bullets would.

What else.... Sumps. Man are sumps a big headache. Too much microbubbles and too much detritus if you have lots of compartments. The best sump is one that only has baffles to stop bubbles and nothing else. I got this 900$ acrylic sump that has so many walls it in itself is a nitrate factory. Guess what? Im not using a sump anymore. 900$ wasted.... Oh well.

For flow I use 2x hagen mj mods. They are equivellnt to 2x tunze 6100 id say. But I need to buy some real powerheads. Like you, vortecs are great, but I have my doubts on if they have enough thrust to make it across 6ft. Wich you need to! You need force to push the detrits to the skimmer, or other side. Maybe vortecs are too wide flowed. On my diy mj mods, they reach the other end and fish have a hard time swimming. Not one speck of dirt will settle. In the skimmer cup or in the bag, wich I rinse daily. :)

One last thing. On my tank, I have the little rock in the middle. I create sort of a wirlpool effect, constant swirling, like in a bucket. When my wavebox is on, the rocks actually move from flow! :lol:
 
tank isn't 6 ft.... is the 48x24 120.

water changes doesn't bother me, and my sump only has two baffles for bubbles. So what else I have to missing something i'm going to start pulling rock in the morning and would really like to know that i'm going to be transfering the fish and coral the correct way without overlooking something.
 
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Hurley: The 10k Ushios arent very 10k -- you can tell there's more yellow than white.

The 14k Ushios are closer to what I'd call a typical 10k.

In the future, I plan to try out the Ushio 20ks (because, being BB and not having a proper skimmer and fish load, I've had issues w/ pale corals, so I'm gonna try to reduce the par, but leave the lights on longer -- we'll see how it works out.)
 
Yes -- and too much light.

14k Ushsios, 250w, DE, HQI, in Reef Optix III reflectors like I have still output a TREMENDOUS amount of par -- in fact, I believe they put out just as much as the 10k's did (though dont quote me.. I researched all this a long time ago when I made the decision to buy). At the very center of the reflector, according to spread surveys, the light can be stronger than noon day tropical sun -- now imagine blasting some acros with that for 9 hours!

Bomber has stated this a few times now, but one of his chief reasons for going BB was because he wanted a way of having an overstocked tank without having the issues associated with one. This meant he needed a superior way of controlling nutrients. The BB method is the ultimate nutrient control method, because there is no where for the dirt to hide.
 
^ I agree ultimate way of controlling nutrients!

King kong, did you add a little sand box( like a 4x6) one just to increase flux of Po4 periodically and the production of free-floating organisms? You know come to think of it, the real reef has areas that flux, just its lower than our tanks usually see. Hence the darkened corals with sand beds. I mean browned out. But what have you got to loose? If things get a little iffy, take out the 4x6" sand box. :) Just a thought.

Sorry to off set the thread a little.
 
You're right boxfish, and I have the PERFECT area in my sump to do it... I just havent, yet. I should have tried it 3 months ago when I began "saving" for a new skimmer (why IS that bank account still empty?!).
 
:lol: Mines empy too!

I just bought that stupid sump for 900$ bucks and I Still owe!

Seriously whats your thoughts on the sand box? Biologically and chemically wise?
 
WHAT SERIOUSLY ....... 14k's that high!!! YIKES ......

Dang I have to totally think about this again......I really liked the Ushios, but I'm like you have two Luminarc Minis DE's and I don't want to make every coral pastel.

boxfishpooalot...... that's not a hijack that's agreement with a twist.

Man there is a lot of chemistry behind all this stuff.

Could you not go without a DSB in a bucket for that though?
 
while I have two experienced types on here.....

what do people really consider a high performance skimmer. I always thought the Euro Reef was the what people mostly referred to, but know that BB. is getting more and more popular, I'm seeing many more people going to all different types of skimmers. From the massive becketts, to the bubble kings, or bubble masters not sure if these are the same thing, to the really expensive Euro Reefs. I've preety much upgraded everything that I can right now, those lumenarc's kinda hurt.

But next will def. get a skimmer..... I was considering the Bubblemaster, and the big three pump RO.


So you guys don't see an issue with how I plan to transfer fish from one tank to the next. Do I need to leave some live rock in the 55 and just cook it later? That way the my prize Tang has a place to hide.
 
So you guys don't see an issue with how I plan to transfer fish from one tank to the next. Do I need to leave some live rock in the 55 and just cook it later? That way the my prize Tang has a place to hide.

Not really. After my sand bed disaster, along with many other causes. I took some newly made saltwater, put in some needle wheel skimmer pumps, areated for 1 day. Took out all the fish along with 2 hunks of live rock and put them directly into the new water. No cycle or anything. The tank had a light above it. They lived in their for 2 weeks with feeding. It was a 15 gallon rubbermaid with an air bubbler. All fish are doing great. So i sucked out all the sand, removed 90% of my rock for cooking, left 15# in the newly filled saltwater tank and viola. No worries.

If the cycle your worrying about, yes with the sand sucked slowly. Id do it all in one day. All you need is an air bubbler and little live rock. Instant cycle.

Skimmer for bb. There are none that are perfected. Beckets too turbulent good air flow to get it out. Needle wheels are too weak to get it out. I use a filter bag on the end of my Reef octopuss, changed daily.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10005196#post10005196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
:lol: Mines empy too!

I just bought that stupid sump for 900$ bucks and I Still owe!

Seriously whats your thoughts on the sand box? Biologically and chemically wise?
Click to expand...


My understanding of it is that the sand will help "hide" the detritus that the skimmer couldnt remove, and was otherwise rotting in your water column.

Bacteria will form in the sand and slowly help to upkeep the free nutrients. This will continue for a while and be successful, until the bacteria can no longer uptake anymore, or until something disrupts your giant bacteria colony. Disruptions could be changes in chemistry, temperature, etc. The disruption can lead to a mass die off the bacteria and a subsequent release of everything they had taken up. This, in larger bed systems, can lead to your typical "crash".

So, my issue is, my ASM G-2 is laughably bad for BB applications (I think it pulls something like 3-4lpm of air), so I have a lot of detritus floating around in the water column rotting, contributing to phosphates. If i had the sand in the sump, it should help upkeep some of that free floating fertilizer, but this sand will add to my alkalinity load, and could potentially destablize my system further if i'm not careful.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10005232#post10005232 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hurleycr
what do people really consider a high performance skimmer. I always thought the Euro Reef was the what people mostly referred to, but know that BB. is getting more and more popular, I'm seeing many more people going to all different types of skimmers. From the massive becketts, to the bubble kings, or bubble masters not sure if these are the same thing, to the really expensive Euro Reefs. I've preety much upgraded everything that I can right now, those lumenarc's kinda hurt.
Click to expand...


When I bought my ASM G-2 2.5 years ago, it was a reasonable skimmer for a low/medium stocked 90g with DSB.

Not a good choice for a BB SPS tank with lots of fish.

Today, if you compare the air inputs of the new skimmers, you're looking at anywhere from 2-10x the performance gains, for aprox 2-4x as much money. The technology is constantly improving.

I am eying the Bubblemasters as well (different company from Bubble King). The #s people are getting out of them (for amount of air mixed in w/ water) are extremely impressive. Additionally, they have a small foot print, but a large collection cup.

The hardcore BB guys with room get Beckets. I have seen needlewheel/meshwheel skimmers being used by ex-becket owners, and they still agree Beckets were better at skimming (but LOUDER, and big energy hogs, which is why they switched).

The nice european skimmers (such as the bubble master) use little space, with little energy demands, to give you great performance. Also, the BM skimmers are a fraction of the cost of other euro. skimmers that have the same pump power.

Personally, I am eying the BM250 for my 90g.
 
On high performace skimmers

I would say the best skimmer is one with the smallest of bubbles,with alot of air volume, like beckets do, while not being turbulent, while injecting massive amounts of tank water. That is the best skimmer. The bubbles need to be slowly flowing to the top, not turbulently mixing stuff around in the reaction chamber. Linear strait up to the top.

With my skimmer, the reef octopuss nw-200 recirc, its flawed. Why> tank water is injected at the top. Near the collection cup. Well this causes foam collapse, turbulence of the water, causing bubbles to attach to each other, becoming bigger. And makes it less taller actually because water enter at the top, not the bottom where it should. That is the contact time. JMO.

Imo skimmers need some serious improvement.
 
so when supplementing with four actnics which is better since there is an apparent spike at the 420nm for both bulbs. I thought that the 10k didn't have that spike as much.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10004663#post10004663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot

I run a reef octopuss nw-rc-200. Its an ok skimmer, but i feel it does not push enough air to push large particle out of the skimmer. So what i did was add a collection bag to the exit of the skimmer. I rinse it daily and it collects a little.
Click to expand...

Meshmod it, and it'll pull more air than most becketts. Mine is pulling 50+ scfh at this point.



OP, why do you feel that BB will be less maintenance? Everything in my experience says otherwise.
 
Yeah i would really like to but i'm a little weary of doing that.... If I had another skimmer here ready to rock if I screwed that one up yeah in a heart beat. but I don't so i'm afraid I'll do serious damage to it and won't have a skimmer at all.

poorly educated, use of words.... mostly.

basically less maint. now due to algae outbreak that is driving me up a wall.

the post should have read more along the lines of less maint. more often kind of thing. not just less maint.


cuz in my mind its like syphon crap out, put more water in weekly.

when I do my maint now, i'm usually doing larger water changes because I only do it when I need to, and I turkey baste the rocks clean top layer of sand.....and so on.

some how in my mind its less maint. more often. Especially if cooking the rock actually works and kills the aptasia and algae. It will then def. be less maint.
 
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