Struggling with Acroporids

[klepto]

I can't keep my Acro's alive. Nearly every one started STN'ing about two weeks ago.
I have had color issues with most of my SPS for a while now (most are super pale and thin tissued). But I'm seeing widespread STN and RTN issues and colors are completely wack.

I have been battling some nasty algae that has taken over my rockwork and grows rapidly all over my glass. It is unlike any macro/slime/film algae I have ever seen.

After converting my tank to BB a few months ago (after moving) and my Acro's have gradually been going downhill.

Whats even stranger, these issues have been worsening even though I have been better about water changes. (weekly- with RODI tds: 1-2ppm- usually 10-15% with aged TMP). I realize that getting my tds down to 0 will help with algae growth.

My salinity has been stable at 35ppt (thanks to my osmolator and regular refractometer calibrations).
I have also been regularly testing KH, Ca and Mg (using Salifert kits). All of which seem in an acceptable range. These numbers are approximations based on multiple tests.
KH : 7.4- 8.6(older kit- but still testing within the accepted accuracy of the kit)
Ca : 380-440ppm (new kit)
Mg : 1290-1360ppm (this kit is older, so I don't put too much faith in these results)

I also just tested my phosphate: .06ppm with the Hanna Checker. I'm running TLF carbon and BRS GFO.

I primarily feed NLS Thera A+ and weekly or biweekly I feed modest amounts of Cyclopeeze, rinsed PE and some fresh fish/prawn.

I have been using two crappy Stealth heaters (which I plan to replace). Could they be leaching current and/or offering unstable heating- prompting the STN? I ask this because the STN is so widespread. The heaters are one of the few pieces of equipment that I have been messing with recently.

My tank is a standard 4ft AGA with roughly 50lbs of rock (80% of which was dry rock) Currently the tank is sumpless. :thumbdown I am using a Remora w/ a Maxi1200. Lighting: ATI 4x54 Sunpower. Bulb combo is all ATI: purple +, 2x AquaBluSpec. Blue +
Flow: 2x Koralia 3 1K 1, 1 Tunze 6025

Thanks in advance for the input people. I will work on taking some pictures. I know they speak louder than words for issues like this.

 

[T Diddy]

How long was this tank set up before the move? Did your acros thrive in the previous location? Was it a move across town or across the country? Which standard 4ft tank...55, 75, 90, 120, 150??? Do you feed your tank? Have you tested parameters sice the move???

4 T5s doesn't sound like much light for acros on any of the tanks mentioned above. May be a cycling of the tank after the move, especially with new water and no sand bed.

 

[klepto]

Its just a 55. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

The tank had been set up for a year prior to the move. The move was only about 30 mins away and I didn't lose a coral in the move/transition. Yes my acro's were doing well prior to the move. As I mentioned, colors haven't ever been the best, but I have never (in my 2ish years keeping SPS) witnessed necrosis like I have in the last month- I have suffered very minimal losses in the hobby until recently. Even right after the tank was re-set up and cycling my corals coped with the parameter swings.

I covered feedings with the first post. And the numbers I posted are recent (since the move). I have been at the new house for about 4 months now.

 

[klepto]

Any other thoughts? Maybe I should have posted this in the SPS forum. Mods, please feel free to relocate if you think it would benefit the thread. Thanks.

 

[divewsharks]

your alk is 7.4 - 8.6, which is it? that would be quite a swing... ALK issues would definitely cause you SPS issues.
As for the algae, how long have you been battling it? did it start right after the move? what are your nitrates at?
stray current can also cause issues, i'm assuming you have fish in the tank have you noticed any issues with them? you can always either swap the heaters or try a grounding probe.

 

[Alex T.]

divewsharks, is that a large alkalinity swing? I routinely bounce between 9 and 10 with no apparent problems like klepto is having.

Personally, I think that if you converted to a BB from a sand bed after your move without adding any more biological filtration and microfauna (more live rock or live sand) feeding your sps then this could be the culprit. I started my tank barebottom, but the problem with BB is that no matter how much flow you have, there will always be detritus that settles at the bottom no matter what. Now I have between 1 & 2 inches of sand and the tank is doing much better without routine detritus siphoning sessions.

I think bb is actually higher maintenance, and in as narrow of a tank as a 55, it's going to be hard to get all that detritus out of there when corals start to grow out and you can no longer get to all the little nooks and crannies in a 12 inch wide tank.

Phosphates of .06 are not dangerously high, but getting it down below .03 is your goal with acropora...especially if it's a spike as opposed to a gradual increase. If don't know how good of an idea it is to go sumpless with a bb system either. Most bb systems run huge skimmers, not hang ons because of the increased need for nutrient export.

I can tell you when I was running bare bottom I had (and still have) a 4 foot tall ETSS downdraft skimmer rated for over 2 times my tank's volume. It may be in your best interest to choose one of the following:

1. If you remain sumpless, you're going to need some more live rock and live
sand to increase biological processing capability.
2. If you are going to stay barebottom, you need to increase the flow, install an overflow box and sump and get a much more capable in sump skimmer for your tank.


Just my .02

 

[Alex T.]

divewsharks, is that a large alkalinity swing? I routinely bounce between 9 and 10 with no apparent problems like klepto is having.

Personally, I think that if you converted to a BB from a sand bed after your move without adding any more biological filtration and microfauna (more live rock or live sand) feeding your sps then this could be the culprit. I started my tank barebottom, but the problem with BB is that no matter how much flow you have, there will always be detritus that settles at the bottom no matter what. Now I have between 1 & 2 inches of sand and the tank is doing much better without routine detritus siphoning sessions.

I think bb is actually higher maintenance, and in as narrow of a tank as a 55, it's going to be hard to get all that detritus out of there when corals start to grow out and you can no longer get to all the little nooks and crannies in a 12 inch wide tank.

Phosphates of .06 are not dangerously high, but getting it down below .03 is your goal with acropora...especially if it's a spike as opposed to a gradual increase. I don't know how good of an idea it is to go sumpless with a bb system either. Most bb systems run huge skimmers, not hang ons because of the increased need for nutrient export.

I can tell you when I was running bare bottom I had (and still have) a 4 foot tall ETSS 900 downdraft skimmer rated for over 2 times my tank's volume. It may be in your best interest to choose one of the following:

1. If you remain sumpless, you're going to need some more live rock and live
sand to increase biological processing capability. I would start by feediing
less for now.
2. If you are going to stay barebottom, you need to increase the flow, install an overflow box and sump and get a much more capable in sump skimmer for your tank.


Just my .02

 

[Alex T.]

Sorry for double post

 

[divewsharks]

Alex- my question (not worded clearly) was which number was/is it. if you take a reading at a given time you should only have one number. are those numbers showing a range that occurs with a few tests over a 24 hr period, or are they two tests taken an hour apart?
phosphates of .06 could affect color, but should not be the root cause of massive STN/RTN.

I'm also curious the timing of the massive STN/RTN and the move to BB.

 

[Pickupman66]

IM thinking it is the KH levels. those are low in my opinion and need to be clower to 9 or 10 for SPS. Ca at 450. the thing I have found for SPS is stability. the fewwer swings and more stable everything is, the better they seem to do.

 

[divewsharks]

I would agree stability is key; but as for level i wouldn't necessarily call those low. I know folks who have success keeping their alk around 7+ (i personally think 8 and above is better), I keep mine at 8.3 and my corals are doing quite well.

 

[superfirefly]

Please get rid of the stealth heaters. Don't put this off another minute. I had 2 in my tank and they both went within a month or 2 of each other. Very little in my tank survived this. After my experience I did a search here only to learn this is a very common problem with those heaters. It has been a year now since the incidents and my aquarium still looks like hell. I wish I would have just started over instead of trying to resurrect what I had.

 

[Rumplestilsken]

Please get rid of the stealth heaters. Don't put this off another minute. I had 2 in my tank and they both went within a month or 2 of each other. Very little in my tank survived this. After my experience I did a search here only to learn this is a very common problem with those heaters. It has been a year now since the incidents and my aquarium still looks like hell. I wish I would have just started over instead of trying to resurrect what I had.

Not to jump on the hijack but I agreed and have visual proof!

These things suck.

 

[klepto]

Thank you all for your input. Please keep it coming. I'm finding this very helpful.

I have heard similar horror stories about the Stealth's. Replacing them is at the top of my list. What are your thoughts about Eheim's Jager heaters? I have heard mostly good reviews and was planning on going that route.

Pickupman- I would be inclined to agree with you... although what I am trying to stress is that my parameters are MUCH more stable than they used to be. It just seems strange that alk instability would be to blame when my alkalinity is actually being regularly monitored and gradually supplemented (instead of the random testing and dosing that I used to employ).

 

[klepto]

your alk is 7.4 - 8.6, which is it? that would be quite a swing... ALK issues would definitely cause you SPS issues.
As for the algae, how long have you been battling it? did it start right after the move? what are your nitrates at?
stray current can also cause issues, i'm assuming you have fish in the tank have you noticed any issues with them? you can always either swap the heaters or try a grounding probe.

I tried to reply late last night and forgot that the post never made it because the servers were backing up.

Anyways- The numbers I posted were basically the highs and lows that I have recorded since the move. I can see how that would be unclear. KH is usually around 7.7-8.0. I'm not posting a single value because I know parameters are varying.

Yes, the algae started shortly after the move. I have been gradually increasing the amount of media I am running to slow the growth. My rocks look awful aside from a few pieces that previously had decent coralline coverage.

Yes, I have fishes in the tank. One is not in the best health, and stray current could be irritating it's issues. What should I be looking for? shaking/twitching like tangs are known for doing? What about "flashing" against the side of the tank.

 

[klepto]

New heaters on the way.
I tested my KH today. This time with a new Elos kit. My results: 8dKH
Ca last night. 450ppm (Salifert)

I'm beginning to wonder if my rock is responsible for all my troubles. It seems like the necrosis is restricted to the bases of my acro's. In particular, the ones mounted closest to the dry rock. I was looking at one coral in particular tonight which has been losing a lot of tissue and the freshly receded skeleton is all discolored- green and teal hues. Doesn't that indicate phosphate leaching?

I made the mistake of rushing my move instead of letting the tank stabilize before re-introducing my corals. I rescaped my tank and replaced some spent live rock with (poorly) cooked and cured dry rock. On top of that, I stocked things hastily and really didn't let the rock cure out in display at all.

Ah. Lessons learned.

I'm considering gradually pulling the dryrock.. once I have some LR cured out and ready to fill it's void.