Study to help standardize reef keeping methods!!!

[lukinrats]

I have been sitting here thinking of something I saw, where a salt manufacturer sent X number of people some salt, and test kits... The main idea behind this was to study the variations that come up when people test their salt mix... To show that,even with the exact same salt (batch) and identical test kits, variations in results will occur.

The other idea behind it was to help standardize the way that we as hobbyist test... There could be some added variables such as what each participant feeds, what filtration they use (ie. skimmers, etc), source of fresh water, chemical filtration.
These additional variable could show why some people would have different results with the same salt

These added variable would be secondary to the study, once we have worked on testing procedures, and got them as close to identical as possible...Once this is accomplished then other things could be narrowed down, as possible reasons for problems... Such as nuisance algae, cyanobacteria, coral bleaching, RTN/STN, etc all while using the same salt

I think that with MACNA coming up soon, this would be something valuable for people to discuss once all together

I wonder if we could get something like that done here... It would be very interesting to do something like that with new Tunze salt... I know that Tunze has a venders forum on here, so I wonder if we could talk about what we want to do... Something like getting X number of people a 50 gallon bag of their new salt + Cal, Alk, Mag, and maybe PO4 kits, also Tunze brand... Ideally this would need to be backed by Tunze, and the salt, and few test kits would need to be free to the participants... However, if they would not be willing, then I still think it would be beneficial to us as a community to pick a salt, and then proceed... I think it would be beneficial to this forum... It would definitely show how many factors come into play when using typical methods of testing saltwater... No doubt that it could be beneficial to together, assuming that they are confident with their salt... If participants post their results and then, over time, it is proven that any bad results are attributed to other factors such as color blindness, uniformity of reagent drop sizes, cross sample mixing of reagents, etc, etc,etc.... Then Tunze salt could easily become a huge favorite... I think that one reason salts take a beating on these boards, is because people give bad test results(not done intentionally, but through no fault of their own)... Then this snowballs, and some salts that probably do not deserve to get a bad name, get one anyway... For instance, say some people using BrandX salt gets Cyano, and the others do not, still sometimes the salt gets all the blame when it could be any number of things... Filtration, food we add, additives we use, etc, etc

It really does not matter who the company would be... I just picked Tunze because they have a new reef salt out, and they are a heavy hitter w/ a forum on RC
It could just as easily be done by Seachem... It could easily be done by a large vendor who does not make salt, but had an interest in pushing certain brands (i.e) Premium Aquatics... They sell the Tunze, and the Reefers Best

This study could be very interesting to many people, and it would also be fun... Some people would get a chance to try out a different salt for free, and then, maybe end up finding a new salt all together

One of the Mods here on RC could be responsible for collecting, and putting together the results... The results would then be posted, and according to variables, changes could be implemented... Then participants could implement the changes, and results could be reposted, etc, etc, etc... Over a small amount of time, I think that many people could become more skilled in testing their reefs, and they would be better off for it.

I think there would have to be some qualifications met, for entry into the study... 1st, Must be a premium member... 2nd, Must have a refractometer w/ Pinpoint calibration fluid... Others could also be set, but these would be very important I think... This would be a very good way of showing the benefits of premium membership on Reef Central

In addition to the "X" brand of test kits supplied, participants could also submit results from any other kits they have on hand... This could add even more information, and possibly outline some of the more accurate brands available

Well, these are my thoughts, and I really think that we could all learn quite a bit... Anybody else think it is a great idea?

Thanks for reading!!
Nathan

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose(s).

Is the purpose to understand the variability of test kits on exactly the same water when used by different people? That will obviously depend on the kit itself. So you'd need to do it on many brands of kits to be useful to everyone. How would you know what value was the "true" value for the water studied? That is actually a lot harder than it sounds.

Is the purpose to understand the variability of salt mixes? I would not assume that salt sent out to different people is exactly the same without a lot of careful work to show in advance that it was totally uniform before shipping.

There could be some added variables such as what each participant feeds, what filtration they use (ie. skimmers, etc), source of fresh water, chemical filtration.
These additional variable could show why some people would have different results with the same salt

These added variable would be secondary to the study, once we have worked on testing procedures, and got them as close to identical as possible...Once this is accomplished then other things could be narrowed down, as possible reasons for problems... Such as nuisance algae, cyanobacteria, coral bleaching, RTN/STN, etc all while using the same salt.

I'm not understanding how this necessarily relates to either salt mixes or testing.

 

[lukinrats]

I am not real good at making things make sense I don't think... I was just thinking that a study to show how, people using generally, the same methods in reef keeping can have very different results... The idea of using a single brand of salt and test kits, was to kind of eliminate that part of the variables

I am not as smart as someone like you Randy... This is why I wanted to post it here, and get some opinions, but if I can't make any sense, then I don't guess it could ever get off the ground

To me, it would be more or less, something that members could participate in... Learning things as we go

To answer you questions....

Is the purpose to understand the variability of test kits on exactly the same water when used by different people? That will obviously depend on the kit itself. So you'd need to do it on many brands of kits to be useful to everyone. How would you know what value was the "true" value for the water studied?

Basically yes... and I know that many kits would be used... This is why I suggested that members also use any kits that they own, and submit the results, but to also use one that they do not own ... I thought this would broaden things, and hopefully make the results more meaningful
As far as the true value goes... I don't think that ever crossed my mind really... I was thinking that over time as we all talked about the different results, and corrected any wrong methods, that in the end we could come to a fairly standard result

Again, I am sure that this may not make sense to anyone besides myself... That was the reason for outlining my thoughts, and then having other people (like you) chime in

I understand the question in the last part of your post, but I thought I had explained what I was thinking... I thought that after the results with the freshly mixed salt water produced an acceptable range of standardization, then we could move on to any other problems in the participants tanks... Say a few people have problems in their tank while using the salt, and no one else is having the same problems... Those few people, after adapting their testing procedures with all the rest, could add other variables that may be causing the problems... I just thought that it could be easier to sort of diagnose those problems, if we are all on the same page as far as testing goes... This part of the OP was (I thought) explained as being secondary, and something that could be done down the road

Randy thanks for your questions!!
I am sure that I have come no closer to making myself clear, but I tried!

Later,
Nathan\