STUNNED...Please help!

spsrookie

New member
Hello all,

I started a thread a few days ago about my quarantine tank. Tonight something happened, and I am not quite sure if this is real life or a nightmare.

Make a long story short, I had an ich outbreak, and quarantined the fish I had, and added some to it to be quarantine 8 weeks while main tank goes fallow.

All was well and fine, then tonight happened. Its a 75 gallon tank, no rock, just pvc hiding places, with a 20 gallon long sump. The fish in 75 qt are: 4 inch Moorish idol, 3 inch sailfin, 3 inch purple tang, 1 inch xmas wrasse, 1 inch hippo, 2 damsels, and 2 small (nickel size) clowns. In the sump is an Achilles tang, by himself.

I am running cupramine, .5 level, and the fish have been in there for 4 weeks, no issues all eating.

Two weeks ago I picked up a blonde nase my lfs brought in for me, about 3 inches. He was doing okay, eating, mostly hiding.

Sunday, I got a regular naso, about 4 inches. No fighting, all eating, this particular naso was fat and a feisty eater.

I got home from work today, and fed the fish, all seem well. About 4 hours later I go back to shut off lights, and I notice the bigger naso, is barely swimming, and has a white blotch near his head, almost like someone took white out and made a nickel size spot near his eye.

In complete shock, I look at the others, and everyone is fine...except my small blonde naso, who was on the ground.

I immediately ran to the computer, and not having come across anything obvious, I decided to do a freshwater dip. I brought the bucket to the tank, and both fish were already dead.

How can, two fish who seemed fine hours ago, both same species, be dead , basically at the same time.

My first guess was I had a friend and his kids over, and they were near the tank, and thought maybe they put something in there. But I couldn't find anything obvious, plus the other fish, including the idol, seem fine.
 
I spent hours a day obverving the fish, and never saw any fighting. The lights go out when I am not around. Filtration is a big hob (300 gph) in the sump, with large sponge that was seeded in my main tank for months. It has a 700 gph return pump, along with an airstone in the sump, and a 1000 gph power head koralia in tank.

I welcome any advice, please focus on the fish that perished, the timing of it, and not the quanity of fish in a 75, or species mixing.

2 fish dead within hours of eating, motionless, and one with a white blotch (almost like rtn in coral) near the head of one. Preceded my eratic, slow, swimming.

One final note, these nasos were relatively cheap, could it be they were indo, and ran into cyanide?
 
Well my guess will be aggression when you are not around the tank. First, you have 4 tangs which are the most aggressive out of all the tangs. That tank is too crowded and 5 fish out of your list do not belong in that size tank. Good Luck!
 
It had to be a bug. It is in a pitch black room, and I only have the lights on when I am there, and they stayed away from each other. Literally ate, few hours later, struggling to swim, dead.

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I would understand if this were the permeant display, but this was just for quarantine. Not sure I know many people with quarantined bigger than 40 gallon,

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One other thing I noticed, the second naso, the regular 4 inch one, was as fat as can be the day before. I'm talking girth was round. When he began swimming oddly, he looked emaciated, ribs showing and all

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I'm not sure what might have happened to the Nasos, but it seems to me the purpose of a quarantine tank is to make sure new incoming fish don't infect fish that are already in the display and cause a catastrophic loss.

If you move all of your fish from your DT to your QT and then start adding fish to the QT from external sources, then you are effectively not quarantining anymore and are risking all your livestock. I'd definitely keep an eye on the others in case it was a disease and not aggression.

For aggression, I would look for frayed fins and/or other visible signs of attack. Pictures would probably help for a diagnosis.
 
I would understand if this were the permeant display, but this was just for quarantine. Not sure I know many people with quarantined bigger than 40 gallon,

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True that many people don't have a QT larger than a 40g, but most people don't try to put so many fish in a QT at once. And then adding even more fish while the others were being treated for Ich seems odd to me.
 
I plan on going fallow for a long time, so these guys going on at would have reset the clock, thus being prophetically treated at least 8 weeks.

So far all I have got was tank to small (even tho lfs constantly keep heavier loads of fish for months at a time, mine was.for qt no more than 8 weeks)

It's pretty much a dark out tank, lights in 4 hours a day, with dozens of.feet of PVC to hide.

My question is and was, with regards to naso tangs, what could.cause them to go downhill so fast, within hours, yet others seem fine? Also, the white blemish/dead tissue on one before death.

I want to focus on issues I can fix (oxygen, high copper, cyanide poisoning) .
And prevent whatever it could be from trickling down

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I plan on going fallow for a long time, so these guys going on at would have reset the clock, thus being prophetically treated at least 8 weeks.

So far all I have got was tank to small (even tho lfs constantly keep heavier loads of fish for months at a time, mine was.for qt no more than 8 weeks)

It's pretty much a dark out tank, lights in 4 hours a day, with dozens of.feet of PVC to hide.

My question is and was, with regards to naso tangs, what could.cause them to go downhill so fast, within hours, yet others seem fine? Also, the white blemish/dead tissue on one before death.

I want to focus on issues I can fix (oxygen, high copper, cyanide poisoning) .
And prevent whatever it could be from trickling down

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The white blemish/erratic swimming doesn't seem like aggression to me, but I dunno. You didn't take any pictures of the dead fish, did you?
 
No sir, it was late at night, I was angry. Picture a darkened naso, with 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch white paint on his head. No texture, hole, scrape, just faded skin.

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The best idea is to qt one fish at a time, and when stocking a tank, to introduce the most aggressive fish last.

Aggression is largely a function of available space. Putting a number of somewhat aggressive fish into a tank smaller than their destination tank and too small for their comfortable interaction is like cocking a gun. Any untoward thing can set it off. I once saw our national aquarium (at the time in DC) have a little temperature rise in the long-stable piranha tank. Rising temperature shortens oxygen and creates panic, and the result was fish chowder.

I heartily recommend a restart with only one.
 
I recommend:

+stop buying fish for six months
+lose the copper
+develop a robust quarantine protocol including a formalin dip and TTM
+purchase appropriate meds
+quarantine one fish at a time
 
Steve-

That will be how every fish from here on out goes into tank, I will not be buying.anything for at least 6 months.

But to the fish I have now, I am waiting one more week, and pulling copper. I will then observe before doing ttm back into display.

Hoping 72 days fallow works. Fwiw, I emailed the owner/moderator of wet web media, I can paste response if you like, but he says, go fallow 4 weeks, that will weaken the parasite, and rest assured, once in your system, always in your system.

Boggles my mind really, I know he is the brain trust to alot of people, says going fallow won't eradicate them.



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Steve-

That will be how every fish from here on out goes into tank, I will not be buying.anything for at least 6 months.

But to the fish I have now, I am waiting one more week, and pulling copper. I will then observe before doing ttm back into display.

Fwiw, I emailed the owner/moderator of wet web media, I can paste response if you like, but he says, go fallow 4 weeks, that will weaken the parasite, and rest assured, once in your system, always in your system.

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There are many points where I disagree with Bob Fenner. However I have no desire to get into them.
 
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