Substrate or Rock First?

Reefmack

Reefmack

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It seems like I've read different opinions on adding the substrate first or live rock first. I'll be setting up my first tank soon and I was thinking that having the substrate (aragonite) in first made more sense, as a base under the LR. I'll get some live sand soon but not till after a bit. Is there a reason not to add the substrate first?

Thanks
 
If you get burrowing critters, like pistol shrimps and the like, they could undermine the support for your rock, and cause an avalanche.
 
Add all the items at once since it a new tank. I would skip live sand myself and just go with the less expensive kind since it will be live in no time at all anyway. Let everything cycle together.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9741021#post9741021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barbra
Add all the items at once since it a new tank. I would skip live sand myself and just go with the less expensive kind since it will be live in no time at all anyway. Let everything cycle together.
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I agree!!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9740757#post9740757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jgoodrich71
If you get burrowing critters, like pistol shrimps and the like, they could undermine the support for your rock, and cause an avalanche.
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Makes sense to me now. I definitely don't need the rock to come tumbling down. Thanks for all the replies. I'm sure glad someone recommended Reef Central to me. You folks are all an excellent resource, especially to us newbies!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9742038#post9742038 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Teknagen
I added sand first and let it settle so it would be easier for me to aquascape the live rock.
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Good idea also. Maybe I'll add the substrate, let it settle a day or two, then get the LR and push my bottom rocks in till they hit bottom. That should keep them from being undermined by critters later.
 
I am a firm believer of rock first, at least all of the base pieces. too many times I had burrowing creatures kill themselves by avalanche.
 
I asked this question a short while ago, and received a great deal of feedback. The key question was if the LR will be uncured or cured. If uncured, it was suggested to wait with the sand, since you will have some die off of the rock. Much easier to clean up when sand isnt in. Once it appears that the rock is no longer dropping things, then put in the sand. That way your sand will stay clean.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9745328#post9745328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sgallagher7
I asked this question a short while ago, and received a great deal of feedback. The key question was if the LR will be uncured or cured. If uncured, it was suggested to wait with the sand, since you will have some die off of the rock. Much easier to clean up when sand isnt in. Once it appears that the rock is no longer dropping things, then put in the sand. That way your sand will stay clean.
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That's silly. Cleaner crews are for cleaning sand. Put it all in together. If you are worried about an avalanche then secure your rocks. Why would an avalanche happen at the start and not any other time? Burrowing creatures will burrow and the solution is not to keep your rocks and sand seperate. If it is a completely new setup add everything. If you have an established setup then add the rock piece by piece and wait for any spikes to subside, or cure in a seperate bucket.
 
The point was not that the rock would fall, but sponges, and other life that didnt make it on the rock. That way during the curing, it would be easier to clean up the debris and not disturbe the sand. From what I have read, the clean up crew should not be introduced until after the rock is cured.
 
Lots of opinions & all have merit. Question on the cleanup crew. Assuming my LR from a local lfs is indeed cured, and with new aragonite substrate in place, and I get little or no cycle, is there a need for a cleanup crew already? Will there be enough in a new tank to support them? Also - in a new setup like this, is there any danger of the bacteria in my LR dyeing off with little or no ammonia being generated yet? Do I need to add some fish first to start generating ammonia? Or keep a hunk of shrimp in there for a while?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9746637#post9746637 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tlmack
Lots of opinions & all have merit. Question on the cleanup crew. Assuming my LR from a local lfs is indeed cured, and with new aragonite substrate in place, and I get little or no cycle, is there a need for a cleanup crew already?

Yes, there is plenty of things on your live rock and the tank should start generating new stuff immediately.

Also - in a new setup like this, is there any danger of the bacteria in my LR dyeing off with little or no ammonia being generated yet? Do I need to add some fish first to start generating ammonia? Or keep a hunk of shrimp in there for a while?

There is no need to generate any spike with a chunk of shrimp. The live rock will do all the work, you just check the parameters until they are stable.
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Thanks Barbra. Good to know. I'll get a cleanup crew as soon as I'm sure the tank is cycled and that my parameters are in line and staying consistent.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9746423#post9746423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barbra
That's silly. Cleaner crews are for cleaning sand.
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That is not silly. That is very sound advice. I don't want to start anything personal, but you have obviously never dealt with any liverock that experiences a lot of die off. It is a lot easier to siphon out the detritus, than to leave it rotting in your tank. Why leave something nasty in your tank, when you can easily remove it before it can become unwanted nutrients.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9750303#post9750303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jgoodrich71
That is not silly. That is very sound advice. I don't want to start anything personal, but you have obviously never dealt with any liverock that experiences a lot of die off. It is a lot easier to siphon out the detritus, than to leave it rotting in your tank. Why leave something nasty in your tank, when you can easily remove it before it can become unwanted nutrients.
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I am not saying he shouldn't siphon the sand, I didn't address that at all. I was saying that he should add the cleaner crew. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
No harm then:D

I just find it a lot easier to vacuum the detritus before the sand goes in. Wait till the majority of detritus is gone, then add the sand.

I've messed with some nasty rock before where I put it all in at the same time. It got all mixed in with the sand, and had continual problems because of it. I ended up removing all of the sand and replacing it to get things back to normal.
 
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