Such thing as "too big" of Ca reactor?

[tgunn]

I've recently been considering building a simply DIY calcium reactor.

I'd most likely use 4" PVC pipe for the reactor body.. I know acrylic is nicer because you can see inside, etc, but it's considerably more costly and at this point I'm not wanting to "go that far"..

At this moment my calcium demands aren't exactly high with 4 small SPS frags, a frogspawn and a galaxia (in a 140)..

Would it be "overkill" to build a 3' tall reactor for my system? Or say two 2' tall chambers linked?

Also, do I absolutely 100% NEED a pH controller at this stage in the game? Could I get away without one initially?

Thanks!
Tyler

 

[plack]

I will say that you CAN put too much calcium in a tank and since it may not get used it will likely skyrocket fast then that can make your Ph take a dive and basically kill everything.

But if you monitored how much and how often it was added you would know when it got too high

testing every day or even more often until you figure it out will get expensive and if overdone at first will require water changes to bring it back into balance and also shutting off the calcium supply for a while

Why not try building a reactor that will add kalkwasser and can be converted to calcium later when you need it you'll need 2 timers 1 pump and will be your auto top off for water evaporation in the mean time
Paul

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6730345#post6730345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plack
I will say that you CAN put too much calcium in a tank and since it may not get used it will likely skyrocket fast then that can make your Ph take a dive and basically kill everything.

But if you monitored how much and how often it was added you would know when it got too high

testing every day or even more often until you figure it out will get expensive and if overdone at first will require water changes to bring it back into balance and also shutting off the calcium supply for a while

Why not try building a reactor that will add kalkwasser and can be converted to calcium later when you need it you'll need 2 timers 1 pump and will be your auto top off for water evaporation in the mean time
Paul

Well, I definitely don't want to overload my tank; that's for certain.
I was just curious if a calcium reactor could be dialed down to the deman I have right now or if it's going to put out a base minimum amount of calcium that's much more than I need.

The pH controller doesn't control calcium addition, just the effluent pH, correct? There's still a certain amount of manual tuning and adjustment to get the effluent flow rate correct to match the demand, right?

I've considered the Kalk reactor idea (even made a failed attempt at building a simple one)... Would continually dosing kalk instead of top off still not provide a steady increase in calcium and alkalinity in my tank if I wasn't consuming it fast enough? I guess that's the one thing about Kalk I've never really "gotten" is how dosing to replace evaporation can control the amount of Ca and KH I'm putting in.

I guess my thought was that if I could "scale down" a Calcium carbonate reactor to my tank's usage that I would be ready for when my demands are indeed higher.

Later,
Tyler

 

[plack]

with 140 gallon and 100 gallon sump and only a few corals at this point in time water changes alone will supply all the calcium you'll need for a while (months to a year+) everyones tank needs differing amounts demanding on the many corals.
as far as dialing down a reactor like I said it will most likely take allot of testing to figure that out and the co2 input rate and water flow rate controls the calcium amount out
if you don't need any calcium then yes a kalkwasser can produce th same imbalances BUT at a much much slower rate

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6731250#post6731250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plack
with 140 gallon and 100 gallon sump and only a few corals at this point in time water changes alone will supply all the calcium you'll need for a while (months to a year+) everyones tank needs differing amounts demanding on the many corals.
as far as dialing down a reactor like I said it will most likely take allot of testing to figure that out and the co2 input rate and water flow rate controls the calcium amount out
if you don't need any calcium then yes a kalkwasser can produce th same imbalances BUT at a much much slower rate

EDIT: Oops, we'll try that again, with a response!

My Ca and KH usage seems to exceed my water changes... I guess I'll have to chart my Ca and KH usage over the span of a few days; but my Ca seems to drop by about 20ppm over the span of 2-3 days, and my KH proportionally so (can't recall the exact amt)... I do water changes every 2 weeks right now.. In that span the levels would drop too much...

My reasoning with the Ca reactor versus a Kalk reactor was that there wasn't a huge difference in parts between the two except the regulator, etc required for a Ca reactor..

Perhaps this week I'll chart my Ca and KH usage a little more accurately; take readings at the same time and not dose anything for the week and see how things go. Then I'll have a much firmer idea on my usage.

Tyler

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

You can also use your PH monitor to measure the PH of your tank water and control the reactor that way. That way you don't overdose calicum and lower your PH too much. That's the way mine is set up, when the PH drops below 7.9, it turns off my reactor and I no longer have the effluent dripping into the tank.

Also I've wondered about too big of a reactor. I just finished building one from some parts I had laying around. It's 4" dia and 4' tall. I'm using a Iwakia 30 for a recirc pump and I noticed that after a day of running it, the water in the reactor is milky white. I don't have much media in it right now as I just used what I had left in a small reactor. This is suppling a 400 G tank/550G system that has a couple of clams and a few corals at the moment.

One question I have is if your running a calc reactor and using a good quality media in it, do you still have to add a buffer? Or is their a buffering from the dissulution of the media? i know that the media also contains other trace elements that you need besides the calicum, just wondering about the buffering.

 

[szwab]

you do not need a controller. it makes things a lot easier. you will need to test you water and figure out where the right setting s for your tank. there is a great article in Reefking Mag about setting up a reactor properly.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.php

 

[plack]

that sounds great i would add that when you do the water change be sure to let it sit with an air stone/heater for 1 day before changing it as the Ph will change a bit and secondly their have been bad batches of both i.o. and oceanic salt with either very high or low CA so check it before it goes into the tank to see what your adding/mixing then ya check it over 3 days to see the change and remember with those test kits 1 drop is 20 points so you cant see exactly thats why it may seem like allot then you over do it (I am speaking from personal experience)
Paul

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6731430#post6731430 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plack
that sounds great i would add that when you do the water change be sure to let it sit with an air stone/heater for 1 day before changing it as the Ph will change a bit and secondly their have been bad batches of both i.o. and oceanic salt with either very high or low CA so check it before it goes into the tank to see what your adding/mixing then ya check it over 3 days to see the change and remember with those test kits 1 drop is 20 points so you cant see exactly thats why it may seem like allot then you over do it (I am speaking from personal experience)
Paul

I fill (or should I say, overflow, since it seems I do that often enough ) my water change pail immediately after I do my water change. I use a PCX-40 to mix in the salt, magesium supp, and some dowflake to bring the I/O up to the right levels. I usually mix it for a day and then unplug the pump. The day before I do the water change I plug in the pump again and a small heater to bring it up to temp.

Good point on testing the water when I start a new pail. I did it at the start of this pail, but I hadn't thought of pail to pail consistency. Better safe than sorry.

Yes, that's true with the test kit resolution. I'll try to keep reading every few days until I get a statistically significant decrease...

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6731378#post6731378 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blown63chevy
You can also use your PH monitor to measure the PH of your tank water and control the reactor that way. That way you don't overdose calicum and lower your PH too much. That's the way mine is set up, when the PH drops below 7.9, it turns off my reactor and I no longer have the effluent dripping into the tank.

Also I've wondered about too big of a reactor. I just finished building one from some parts I had laying around. It's 4" dia and 4' tall. I'm using a Iwakia 30 for a recirc pump and I noticed that after a day of running it, the water in the reactor is milky white. I don't have much media in it right now as I just used what I had left in a small reactor. This is suppling a 400 G tank/550G system that has a couple of clams and a few corals at the moment.

One question I have is if your running a calc reactor and using a good quality media in it, do you still have to add a buffer? Or is their a buffering from the dissulution of the media? i know that the media also contains other trace elements that you need besides the calicum, just wondering about the buffering.

Do you use two controllers? Ie one for the effluent and one for the tank? I guess in normal operating conditions it's going to cycle on and off and the effluent in the reactor will not really get too low of a pH so it's not like it'd be too much of a problem...

Wow, that's a much larger system than I have and I was considering a largish reactor. :lol: I guess given a particular rate of CO2 addition, and a particular usage rate you're only going to be able to dissolve so much media. So my best guess would be that oversizing wouldn't be a big deal; it should theoretically just mean you have to fill the reactor less often. I could be wrong though.

As for the buffering, I'll let someone else chime in here.

Tyler

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6731394#post6731394 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by szwab
you do not need a controller. it makes things a lot easier. you will need to test you water and figure out where the right setting s for your tank. there is a great article in Reefking Mag about setting up a reactor properly.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.php

Thanks for the link; I'll have to give it a read through...

Tyler

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Good link, thanks.

As for the controller, I have one milwakee controller that controlls everything. The probe sets in my sump and I have a power strip that plugs into the controll outlet. Pluged into the powerstrip is everything for the Calc reactor, recirc pump, input powerhead and co2 Cylonoid. If the PH of the tank water falls below 7.9, then the whole reactor is shut down. As for the PH of the effluent, That is set by the amount of co2 input. I basically adjusted it the way the link says to adjust it. I had my other reactor set up the same way, it just wasn't big enough for my tank though.

From reading the linked article, I shouldn't have to add any buffer, it should come out in equal parts from the reactor if I use a good media and have it set right.

 

[mattboy]

I don't think you have to worry about too big a reactor, you simply dial it back to the point where it matches your calcium and carbonate load. In fact, the bigger, the better, as a larger reactor volume means more contact time for a given flow rate, which means more efficient usage of the media at a given ph. Although a kalkreactor is a good thing for tanks with medium-low calcium loads, probably I'd be just as worried about overdosing KW. So, if it's a calcium reactor you want, go ahead and build one. You don't need a controller, but you do need a way of acccurately measuring the effluent ph and alk, and what's really important is that you have a reliable way of controlling CO2 flow and effluent flow. A handheld ph meter and a good alk test kit that has a "low definition" setting like salifert works well; this allows you to test for a range of 25dkh or higher. The dwyer flowmeter (maybe RMA51?) that measures down to 5ml/min is a good way of controlling CO2 flow, and you need a reliable small valve to make sure your reactor effluent drip is steady. If it slows down while your CO2 rate stays the same your effluent ph will really drop. Shoot for an effluent ph of about 6.7, effluent dkh at least 20-25, with a nice slow drip into your sump and you should not have any tank ph problems.

 

[tgunn]

Thanks for the input everyone! Time for me to figure out what I want to do at some point. Lol.

Tyler

 

[jaimwolfe]

Save the money and skip the calcium reactor for now. Invest it in more corals. I like to let the need be the motivator for upgrades.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6741492#post6741492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jaimwolfe
Save the money and skip the calcium reactor for now. Invest it in more corals. I like to let the need be the motivator for upgrades.

:lol: Well, my need is kinda based on the fact that in the summer I'm going to be going away for 2 weeks and I don't think that I'd want to leave my tank without Ca supplementation. I'm tracking my usage so far at about 20ppm every day. I've only taken a few days readings so far but I expect it to be around 20ppm every second day or so.

I really want to be able to get the Ca and Alk rock solid stable so that as I add more corals I'm not getting fluctuations..

Tyler