Sudden Aggression

[rinconmike]

I have a 150 FOWLR.

In the tank I had:

30" Snowflake Eel in tank for 2 years 9 months
7" Porcupine Puffer in tank for 2 years 7 months
7" Red Breasted Wrasse in tank for 1 year 8 Months
6" Banana Wrasse in tank for 1 year 1 month
6" Bluethroat Trigger in tank for 9 months
4" Blue Hippo Tang in tank for 10 months (had it in a smaller tank for 2 years before)

About a month ago, my Bluethroat was hiding more and not eating. I then took out the Tang (saw him hovering around trigger) and the Bluethroat started to come around. However, now he seems blind (misses food and bumps into things). I think the hiding was aggression, but not sure what else would cause the blindness. Maybe from high nitrates I have since lowered from over 80 to 25 and still going down (bio pellets).

A few days ago, I noticed bite marks on the banana wrasse. I also saw some aggression by the Red Breasted Wrasse to the Banana Wrasse. After seeing the marks on the banana wrasse, I also noticed the Red Breasted Wrasse has a broken tooth in the front (has two little teeth in bottom front of mouth that are very visible, now only one). Although beat up, the Banana Wrasse was eating and swimming fine.

Last night, I could not find the banana wrasse. After searching, I found him behind some rocks. Still alive, but half the stomach gone. The trigger was picking at him now too. So I was able to get the Banana Wrasse out of the tank. There was no saving him at this point.

So any ideas what caused the sudden aggression by the Red Breasted Wrasse. I did change feeding schedule two weeks ago to use more True Life Spectrum Pellets and less frozen fish. So instead of frozen food every day or every other day, I would do pellets for 2 to three days and then frozen food.

Just curious. Wondering if I should go for another banana wrasse. Even if I do, I will probably leave the tank as is for a while. I do have the tang in a 55 QT still.

In tank now are:

30" Snowflake Eel in tank for 2 years 9 months
7" Porcupine Puffer in tank for 2 years 7 months
7" Red Breasted Wrasse in tank for 1 year 8 Months
6" Bluethroat Trigger in tank for 9 months

thanks,

Mike

 

[humaguy]

sorry to hear that...as our fish age and grow so does their aggression, some fish can "snap" in a second, sounds like this has happened in your tank...I would not add any new fish...

 

[Wolverine]

sorry to hear that...as our fish age and grow so does their aggression, some fish can "snap" in a second, sounds like this has happened in your tank...I would not add any new fish...

Completely agree. I wouldn't add another fish to a tank that size.

Nitrates at that level shouldn't cause any problem for the fish.

 

[TitanTV]

As others have stated it is easier to set up a tank with a larger number of fish. But to keep that tank together with the initial bio load for the long term is a feat.

 

[sandwi54]

I agree with the others. 150g is kind of small for all of your fish to have their own territories. For your information, my bioload (in terms of size of fish) is just slightly more than yours, and all of my fish look just "alright" in terms of space requirement in my 375g. That should give you a reference point of how many large fish you can keep long term in your tank.

I think in a 150g (which I also had previously), you should limit yourself to just two large fish. By large I mean fish that get over 8" long. You can then have a lot of small, dither fish.

 

[barbianj]

First thing I thought of was they are not getting enough food, or not being satisfied by their feedings, then you mentioned a change in their feeding schedule. If I changed my feeding schedule to yours, I would see more aggression as well. A well balanced, satisfying diet is very important to curb aggression, IME.

A normal feeding for my FOWLR fish is NLS pellets in the morning, then NLS and raw seafood in the evening. If I deviate and feed just pellets for a few days, there is definitely more aggression. Feeding just pellets in the morning also helped in getting fish like the Blueline Trigger to eat them.

I often wonder if this could be one reason that you hear of fish "snapping" like humaguy mentioned. As fish mature and grow, their needs change and if they're not met, somethings gotta give.

I also agree with sandwi54 on load size. My 300 is looking smaller as the fish grow. Even though they are getting along great now, I'm not as sure as I once was about the future for them.

 

[rinconmike]

Hi all. Thanks for the comments. In my first post, I meant the New Life Spectrum Pellets.

I do not plan on adding anything else to the tank. The puffer seems to leave all others alone and I have not seen the Red Breasted Wrasse bother the puffer or Bluethroat trigger. However, last night while feeding frozen food, the trigger took a good nip out of the puffer's tail. I do not think this was due to aggression; rather, the trigger seems blind or blurry vision. Still bumping into things and goes to bite food and misses. It appeared he saw something moving which was the Puffer's tail and took a nip.

Maybe it was the trigger than hit the banana wrasse at night. I am not sure.

On another note, anyone ever see a fish go blind? There are no signs of disease in the tank. I QTed the fish before going in and all have been treated. Only thing I can think of is the diet on the Bluethroat which is a mix of silver sides, prawns, mysis, squid, clams and maybe some other stuff. The trigger does not touch the NLS (I was hoping he would if I gave more of those and less frozen). For the last few weeks I have been treating the food with Selcon, but did not do that enough previously (maybe once a week or every other week).

thanks,

Mike

 

[barbianj]

I've seen vision problems in triggers with the presence of ammonia. It eventually comes back.

If you alternate feedings with meat and pellets only, the trigger will eventually eat them. Bluethroats are not that hard to train, and if there's anything triggers don't like, it's everyone eating-but them.

 

[barbianj]

double post

 

[Shaummy]

Funny you mention the apparent blindness in the blue throat..I had a BT trigger also that seemed to have the same behavior as you describe. I never figured out why it happened, and after while, he wouldn't/couldn't get food unless I essentially hand fed him.

He didn't have a good outcome...but hope yours doesn't reach the same fate.

 

[rinconmike]

Thanks guys. No ammonia issues. I have a seachem Ammo Alert that does not change colors. Maybe 5 months old. I also have tested and shows nothing.

He has been like this since beginning of December. At first I thought it was aggression issues and he was hiding. I took out a blue hippo tang (a little smaller than the trigger) and he stopped hiding, but then I noticed the the vision issue. So I am still hoping he does come around and does not wither away over time.