Sugar dosing...for Genetics if your around

reefer31

New member
Hello, I have recently been looking at your many posts on multiple threads about sugar dosing. I have been dosing sugar for probably about 2 months now with very little results, besides all bryopsis and some HA disappearing. I started with a 1/8 teaspoon then went up from there to a half teaspoon everyday. I tried to add more but I would then get lots of stringy bacterial films on the glass/sump/rocks and it was very unsightly. Also to note, the ha/bryopsis was only in my overflow area and with this 1/2 teaspoon dosing the HA is growing back in my overflow!? I am very confused on what im doing wrong. I have a 120 gallon sps reef with 40 gallon sump, an octo ext 250 skimmer and thats all I run atm. My sps colors are not very good most of the corals are brown/tan in color still with barely any color at the tips. I use 10k hqi ab bulbs with 2-54 actinic t5 bulbs. Im sorry for the randomness to the series of questions but im just frustrated and it seems like you know what your doing :P.

Oh yea, another question, what kind of sugar are you using, I believe i bought it from walmart and it says on the side its beet sugar? Will that make a difference?


Also, will dosing too much sugar cause an influx of nutrients and therefore negate any positive results?
 
Genetics has recently moved and has not had as much time since he is still unpacking.....etc. I have seen him on a few times since the move. :)

The primary pupose for dosing sugar is to reduce you nitrate and phosphate levels. Genetics has stated that using sugar will tend to turn your corals brown. It appears you are over-dosing sugar since you are seeing bacterial blooms. Once your nitrate level drops to zero, you need to decrease the amount of sugar you dose to 1/2 of the recommended rate, which you are way above. He has recently been recommending that you switch from sugar to using glucose which does not seem to turn your corals brown if it is color you are after. :)

As far as your algae type pest goes:

There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest. Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed. ;)
 
Thanks for the post. This is actually an old post that I sent genetics and I have stopped sugar dosing for about 3 weeks now and not much has changed since then. I did however get my skimmer in a set water lvl and at the recommended water height so Im gettting more consistent skimming. I need to get my gfo reactor up and running again since I have not been running it because of the sugar dosing. I am skimming wet and everything else is looking good. I also try to do between 10-15 and sometimes 20 gallon water changes weekly so im not so bad on that. Just need patience for the corals to start to color up, i guess some already are starting to color a bit at the tips ;p.
Thanks again for posting all this info.
 
Anecdotally,

I does vodka(22ml and vinegar 2ml for 550gallons), . I aslo dosed a quarter of a teaspoon of sugar for about 2 months. I noticed: browning /purpling in some lobophylia and mild patchy cyanobacteria . I stopped the sugar 17 days ago. The cyano has disappeared. Still no change in coral coloration though.
 
:wave: I'm rolling in a bit late. Cliff that post could probably be copy pasted to answer many questions. I know many use common table sugar for additives but I was happy with glucose/dextrose additions. Two names, same sugar. I'm kinda confused on what exactly the question is though?
 
Hey Nate. :wavehand:

reefer31,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are using sugar dosing with the intension of getting rid of an algae type problem and have run into problems trying to accomplish this?
 
I was just frustrated with sugar dosing :P. My experience at first with sugar dosing was all algae went white and disapeared, even from the overflow, and very clear water. As I went along, I did an overdose(cloudy tank) and backed down. Then I kept increasing the amount slowly till I got to 1 tsp every day. This did not cause any stringy bacterial films or anything but anything more than 1tsp the next day or so there were the films. Also, after about 2 weeks or so of sugar dosing the algae started to grow back which is wierd I thought. The colors of the corals did not change at all during the time of sugar dosing, for good or bad. I have stopped the dosing and so far no changes either. I guess that was what is going on, not really an algae problem, I just wanted some better colors coming out of my corals, the algae death was a bonus :P.
 
reefer31, have you thought about changing out your lights? Lighting will have more of an effect on coral coloration than any additive on the market.
 
Yeah, I originally wanted 14k bulbs on my tank, but because of all the frags and smaller colonies I wanted to get some growth going. Little did I realize after I swapped out my original 14k bulbs and replaced with 10k bulbs, how yellow and drab colors are. I am looking into either 14k-20k ushio bulbs. Thanks for all the help guys :)
 
Like the look of the radium 20ks. Unfortunately I have magnetic ballasts and can't run them.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15131094#post15131094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Like the look of the radium 20ks. Unfortunately I have magnetic ballasts and can't run them.

Why do you say that? I've run Radiums on a DIY magnetic ballast for years, as well as a Coralvue E-ballast.
 
I may have a used one I don't care about any more. If you want, I could mail it to you to try it with your ballast, Tom.
 
quoted from the hellolights link tmz posted


"or HQI (ANSI M80) for 250W Radium 20,000Ks "

the M80 is a magnetic ballast, not sure what enybody else uses.
 
Shabutii,

welcome.gif

To Reef Central
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15133644#post15133644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I may have a used one I don't care about any more. If you want, I could mail it to you to try it with your ballast, Tom.
Marc.

Your the best.
I'm sure I can get a used bulb around here to try. Lots of the local folks use them. Very nice of you to offer.
What I'm going to try and figure out is wether I can add something to my hamilton ballasts which I have on all three display tanks to convert them to "pulse" start. Don't think so but I'm going to ask around.

Thanks again
 
I wish they made radium 20k DE hqi :P Im prolly going to go with ushio 20k's. I was just looking at my first tank I had, a 29 gallon, and I had a pretty blue stock 14k bulb from the sunpod fixture and it made the colors on my corals look fantastic. I then got a 12k reeflux which is a little less blue but still nice colors on my corals. Even with minimal equipment and my lack of understanding and high phosphates the corals looked alot better than they do in my tank atm. In the tank I have now I have better equipment and better knowledge. I guess my naivity worked better than my knowledge...I must humble myself haha.
 
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