Sugar in aragonite rocks?

Hi all,

I see some serious problems with many of the suggestions made to make this stuff come out porous.

Pasta or other similar stuff will take quite a long time to dissolve out, especially where it is (and much of it will be) totally or nearly totally encapsulated in the cement mix.

Sugar is too soluble in the water that the concrete is mixed with (except maybe hard candy), and will have the same problem as above.

Rock salt will have the same problems as above, unless only applied only to the surface. Also, rock salt is often filthy stuff and contains all kinds of contaminants. The encapsulated bits will be left to dissolve into the aquarium over time.

I have seen DIY aragonite rocks that use a lot of large pieces (up to about 1.5") all the way down to crushed coral and/or puka shells held together by a minimum amount of cement. By using the minimum amount of cement and allowing the mix to stay lumpy (no packing!), many cavities, voids, etc. are created without any other fancy tricks that may leave harmful stuff in the finished rock.

HTH

Adam
 
Adam,

I mostly agree with what you said the only problem is some of us (read me) don't have pieces of rock ready to use and would like to limit what we have to buy. Unfortunately I am just getting into this hobby so my resources are limited in that regard, on the same token I don't want to have to spend 4 x $30 a bag to get varied substances for the rock.

Just as a question what is in rocksalt (particularly water softener salt) that is so bad? It can't be too bad otherwise it couldn't be put in a water softener. Hopefully everyone (including myself) can learn a thing or two.
 
eshook,

If economy is the goal... avoid the fish stores. Many lawn and garden suppliers stock puka shells and crushed oyster shell for use as soil amendments and livestock feed additives. Also consider watching your local classifieds or local reef club for used reef set-ups. It is hard to beat the value of buying "used" rock at $2 per pound.

As for the impurities in salt.... rock salt is very different than water softener salt. Water softener salt (avoid the kind with special additives) is probably pretty safe.

When I think of rock salt, I think of the stuff you throw on your driveway in the winter that is often full of random bits of rock, cinders, unknown stuff, etc. Very nasty indeed!

All that said.... My biggest point is that no whatever you use to try and create a void, if it is completely or nearly completely encased in cement, it will be trapped inside the cured cement either not leaving the intended void or slowly dissolving in the aquarium.

One possible option, though not the most environmentally friendly might be to use styrofoam peanuts. They should be pretty inert and heating the rock would cause them to melt and collapse, leaving nice voids.

Adam
 
adam,

When I said rock-salt I was thinking water softener salt, sorry for the confusion there ;o)

I agree if it is encased in cement it wil be difficult to remove, but so will packing peanuts. I don't know if we can really find a solution to this other than soaking / cooking for *long* extended periods of time, but even then it is questionable. Hrmm.. What about using aquarium salt instead of watersoftenever salt? Would that work, because if it was leeched it would slowly raise salinity but shouldn't majorly affect anything overall.

What do you think?
 
I think you'd be going back to the problem mentioned earlier with salt / sugar. Because of fineness of the granuals (sp?) most would be dissolved in the cement defeating the purpose? What do you guys think?
 
I bet you are rick gold stripe... Salt granules might be too small, I think that is the advantage of water softener salt, because it is much bigger, and although it will dissolve it will still leave enough to make the cement porous.

Is there any other mateiral that would make the cement porous *and* will not hurt the aquarium if it is leeched into the water, assuming it didn't dissolve?
 
I don't think water softener salt would be all that bad would it? I'm no chemist but what else beside NaCl is in it? The rate that it would leech into the water of your tank couldn't be fast enough to hurt anything could it? The last batch of my own rock that I made I cured for 2 1/2 months with 3 powerheads in the tub. How much could salt could be left after that length of time?
 
I agree, I think that type of salt leeching wouldn't affect anything. I'm sure it has to pass plenty of tests because it will be consumed by humans (assuming you drink soft water)

So I suppose that would be the best solution. I think when I make this stuff I will still crush some of it to make for different sizes and shapes. Although some of that will be created by the salt dissolving in the water. Who knows.

From the post above and the puka/oyster shells, I have heard these leech nitrates into the system, is this true?
 
Dont mix the roksalt in the cement but utilize to form the rock itself. When curing the cement you then dislove the outside to be more pourous. That should help.
 
i thought that the fly ash reacted to the portland cement creating bubbles. similar to baking soda in a cake. and its soft and easily cut. until you bake it. the europeans have been using it as a building product for years.

sorry
 
I think he was wanting the porousity inside the rock as well. But if you don't use the salt inside another way to make it porous is to use crushed coral more so than say, sand. I used crushed coral and my rocks are super porous. They take a long time to "drain" all the water out of them. Another thing you can do it customize the rocks by getting a masonry bit and drilling uneven holes / scratches in them.

Have you checked the Garf website? They have a pretty good method that is basically the same as what most people do. I have heard that oyster shell isn't the best thing to use but I can't remember why. It's been quite a while. Anyhow check out Garf.com, you may find it useful.
 
"fly ash" is a very broad term that encompasses several (if not hundreds) of grades of material. Different ashes do different things and have different properties that may play a role in the finished dry product. But, in short no it is not like baking soda.

Bean
 
Ohh and you don't want most flyash products anywhere near your tank, as most have high concentrations of heavy metals (among other things). This again depends on the process that creates the ash. Coal? Coke? Smelting? Glass? etc.
 
actually now that i think about it, its not "fly ash" but aluminum oxide. could be wrong though. someone want to google it?

but yeah i agree, could be bad, flyash.
 
Well I did a couple batches of rock with just the concrete and oyster shells (thoughs things have a funny smell to them, especially when wet). If I am correct, the rock will become relatavily porus due to borring inverts over time.
 
Thanks douggiestyle! I wonder if you could just buy some of this and break of chunks and bits to make it look authentic. If not then just smash it up and glue it back together like a conglomerate piece. Assuming the ph is already leeched out it would reduce cooking time for the LR otherwise it wouldn't help much other than being pourous.
 
eshook... I would image reading the thread would answer your question... otherwise your post leaves me wondering if after reading the entire thread and participating in it, I have missed something.

Bean
 
Sorry I missed the flyash comment on page one. I read through it but it had been a while, my apologies for not looking back.
 
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