Sump at Same Level as DT

[saltwatercowboy]

Hi,

I am designing a sump for a nano tank that would sit behind my Mr. Aqua 12 gallon long. At this point I am just exploring ideas. I like the idea of a sump being next to the DT to keep the setup more compact.

My idea would be that there would be an external overflow on the side of the tank, from which the drain pipe would run down the side to the bottom of the tank, take a 45 degree turn and push water into the bottom of the sump. A return pump on the other side would then pump the water back to the DT. I have attached a rough picture of the design. But something doesn't feel right with this...would this work?

I understand that the return pump essentially controls the flow through the overflow, and with the overflow draining down about 8", it would have *some* gravity assist. But with the drain pipe running into the bottom of the sump, there will be water pressure at the opening and I worry about back flow. What your the thoughts surrounding this? I just exploring ideas.

 

[griss]

What kind of overflow would you be using. My concern would be a siphon being created and draining the tank into the sump faster than the return pump could handle, leading to a potential overflow.

 

[saltwatercowboy]

What kind of overflow would you be using. My concern would be a siphon being created and draining the tank into the sump faster than the return pump could handle, leading to a potential overflow.

I was planning on drilling the tank and putting in an Xaqua InOut

 

[griss]

A couple disclosures.
1. One, I have always had my sumps below my DTs.
2. I am not familiar with the XAqua overflows.
3. Everything I've read over the years states doing this if very difficult, if not impossible.

Looking at pictures of the XAqua, I would think you'll have trouble balancing the water level in your DT best case scenario.

Maybe @BeanAnimal @kharmaguru @Reefing102 @Timfish @wvned will have some good insight.

 

[kharmaguru]

I'm a little confused. You said behind/beside but your drawing looks below. In my opinion having the sump directly behind is no different that an AIO but with more space. I don't see any problem but I wouldn't have the overflow going to the bottom, I would have it waterfall on the top and the return pump on the bottom just like an AIO.

 

[saltwatercowboy]

I'm a little confused. You said behind/beside but your drawing looks below. In my opinion having the sump directly behind is no different that an AIO but with more space. I don't see any problem but I wouldn't have the overflow going to the bottom, I would have it waterfall on the top and the return pump on the bottom just like an AIO.

Yeah, the drawing is rough, sorry. But basically this sump would be a bit shorter than the DT, and directly behind it, but sitting on the same surface as the DT. The drain pipe from the external overflow (like an overflow box) and would come out near the top of the DT, go down from the side of the tank and then run behind and into the sump. But connecting to the bottom of the sump via bulkhead, instead of going into the top of the sump.

This was just a crazy thought of making the system a bit more compact with an AIO-like design having the sump in the back, and not take up room in the DT like a traditional AIO. I could just make it like an AIO and have the drain pipes go straight down into a shorter sump on the side. But I would rather have the sump hidden in the back than on the side. and I would rather not drill the back wall to keep the overflow more out of sight. If it can't be done or is too difficult I will probably just do a standard sump below and find the room!

 

[Reefing102]

If you’re wanting an AIO design per se, it appears the XAqua has a 3/4 inch return and 1.5 inch drain.

Depending on space, could you simply slip the sump under the drain creating that AIO effect?

Please take my statements with a grain of salt as I have limited experience with sumps and that experience is under the tank, however I do have an AIO as well

 

[wvned]

I don’t see any problem making this work.
The drain is controlled by the weir height and stops when the DT level falls.below it.
The return has a siphon break to stop backflow.

You don’t want the drain to enter the bottom of the sump because it will trap air. The water level in the drain would always start as the water level in the sump and you would have to push the air through to get the drain going. This would make lots of microbubbles too.

 

[Timfish]

What wvned said.

 

[wvned]

People always think height makes drains work.
Here is a simple external over the top type overflow

These can move hundreds to thousands of gallons an hour. Some have multiple tubes over the side of the tank.

They work on only a few inches of head height. The difference between the tank water level and what you set the rear box water level to be with a stand pipe.
Some have a second full siphon drain.
All you really need is a few inches to move all the water you need.

Want the drain to go down and then up and then down. That traps air. You vent the air at the sump.
I have stand pipes on some drains the rise above the tank level and let air out. The water is dumped into the sump out the side. These standpipes are capped and have a small hole drilled in them to vent the air but contain the noise.