Sump design question / return section too turbulent?

D5HP

New member
RC,

I have a 75g display (FOWLR) and I'm using a 29g tank as the sump/fuge because I want the fuge to have a TON of macro algaes and be home to either a pair of harlequin shrimp or 10+ sexy shrimp. I want this section to be as large as possible.

I am using a cheap coralife super skimmer (came with the setup and this whole system is being upgraded in less than a year) that can be hung on the side of the tank and the pump is the only design constraint there. I'll also have a TLF 150 reactor running with biopellets.

Maxijet doesn't make the 1200 in the classic style anymore (or I can't find it) but there will be a similar pump in that section as well.

The center is the return. There will be a bulkhead drilled on the backside of the tank with the pump running parallel to the sump behind it...fed by a 90 degree elbow, then a ball valve, then the pump.

The pump will be teed off to feed the fuge via an 18W UV sterilizer.

How small can I make the center return section without it being disasterously bubbly? There will be an ATO that corrects for evaporation.

I also have a piece of PVC with holes drilled into it that sticks into the bulkhead that runs the width of the tank / length of the return section.

Any other issues anyone sees?

photo%285%29.JPG


*Sorry this is so long I never can make posts as short as I want...*
 

bamf25

New member
^^^^

That is the same layout as my sump, but mine is roughly 40 gallons. Only difference is my fuge is smaller and my return and skimmer areas are larger. My system is also using a in sump skimmer. Overall, it seems to work very well. My tank dimensions are roughly this. Overall sump is about 36 inches x 16 x 16 with fuge 12 inches, skimmer/drain 13 inches, return 9 inches, and the sump baffles taking up about 2 inches. So my fuge holds about 15 gallons.
 

D5HP

New member
Great....15g is what I may have to stick with.

I was told I'd be an idiot to use this skimmer in the HOB configuration as it is finicky and prone to overflowing. I may need to replace it sooner than later but in the mean time I'll stick it in the sump.

This would require me to move the fuge down to a maximum of about 15" realistically.

Would a 5" return section be too small? That would be a little under 3g total volume and I'll have an ATO system in place to keep the water level stable.

-Dustin
 

Sharpie_

New member
I would think replacing the skimmer be a top priority, running bio pellets/carboin source is a waste of money without adequate skimming. Without an in-sump skimmer you don't really need a section for one, your skimmer can sit in your fuge with a prefilter and your fuge or return could be significantly larger.

I would also shy away from the DSP in your sump, it will be very difficult to maintian the fuge (detritus collection) without disturbing the DSB. If you want a DSB, the external bucket DSB is recomended.

Your return section is small, I kept mine at 7 gallons full on my 75 with a 30 sump. When my ATO failed, the pump was cavitating and stopped sending heated and filtered water to my tank. Luckily I wasn't away for two long and avoided a crash.

3g is too small IMHO.
 

D5HP

New member
I would think replacing the skimmer be a top priority, running bio pellets/carboin source is a waste of money without adequate skimming. Without an in-sump skimmer you don't really need a section for one, your skimmer can sit in your fuge with a prefilter and your fuge or return could be significantly larger.

I agree but I don't want to spend that money on the skimmer now when I'll be upgrading this whole system to something quite large in the next year and that would be money wasted. I am using the money instead on a MP40, which can be used on the next system as well. I actually have gotten all the current equipment for free after selling a number of extras I didn't need.

I have a pretty high flow pump (750gph) and I want to match the flow rates between the skimmer and that while keeping the flow through the fuge pretty slow. Would I have a problem with keeping the heater in the fuge as well...even with the lower flow rate?


I would also shy away from the DSP in your sump, it will be very difficult to maintian the fuge (detritus collection) without disturbing the DSB. If you want a DSB, the external bucket DSB is recomended.
How often will I need to mess with the fuge? I've never heard of that being an issue.

Your return section is small, I kept mine at 7 gallons full on my 75 with a 30 sump. When my ATO failed, the pump was cavitating and stopped sending heated and filtered water to my tank. Luckily I wasn't away for two long and avoided a crash.

3g is too small IMHO.

Hmm in order to get to 7 gallons I would have to essentially axe my fuge idea.

My ATO system will be pretty solid and the tank has glass tops to help tone down the evaporation. I don't see the system evaporating more than two gallons a day, tops. I work from home so I check the tank constantly. Worst case scenario would be an overnight failure and the tank wouldn't be seen for 14hours I guess...

I think 4g is a nice compromise?

Thanks for your input guys...I appreciate it!
 

bamf25

New member
Actually in my setup it is easy to close off the fuge area. In my sump the fuge divider is about 14 inches high in a 16 inch high sump. If I shut off the ball valve that supplies the fuge, and drain about 1 gallon of water, I can maintain the DSB in complete isolation. There is no risk of mixing and even in an all-in-one sump and fuge desing, if properly set up the fuge can be isolated. Meanwhile, the sump baffles are only 8 inches high. I can and have run my sump with the fuge empty, leaving me with about a 25 gallon sump on my 120g. Furthermore, I have done the simulated power failure and the overflow does not overflow into my fuge. My skimmer/return area while running has about 12 to 15 gallons in it. With powerfailure it gets 5 or 6 more.

This is my sump area. Fuge on left, return center, and overflow/skimmer on right. Since this picture was taken the DSB was added and the tank is now cycled. I also dropped the water level slightly in the return/skimmer areas, because the skimmer was skimming too wet. Here you can see the fuge is empty, while the rest of the system is running. My tank has dual drains and dual returns in one center overflow, and I have the fuge coming off the drain pipe.

tank2.jpg
 
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D5HP

New member
Actually in my setup it is easy to close off the fuge area. In my sump the fuge divider is about 14 inches high in a 16 inch high sump. If I shut off the ball valve that supplies the fuge, and drain about 1 gallon of water, I can maintain the DSB in complete isolation. There is no risk of mixing and even in an all-in-one sump and fuge desing, if properly set up the fuge can be isolated. Meanwhile, the sump baffles are only 8 inches high. I can and have run my sump with the fuge empty, leaving me with about a 25 gallon sump on my 120g. Furthermore, I have done the simulated power failure and the overflow does not overflow into my fuge. My skimmer/return area while running has about 12 to 15 gallons in it. With powerfailur it gets 5 or 6 more.

Exactly...I'll be able to isolate it as well with the ball valve off the T from the return.

What is the purpose of having a UV sterilizer?

* UV sterilizers will eliminate protozoan parasites such as ich during the new born, free swimming life cycle stage of the parasites. NOTE: They do not eliminate the ich parasites once attached to the fish. UV sterilizers can be used with other methods to treat ich.
* UV sterilizers will sterilize free floating algae. It will not sterilize algae that is stuck to your glass or embedded in your live rock. The algae needs to go through the UV sterilizer to be sterilized.

That's what I've read at least.

I had a brand new one come with the tank and the power draw from the bulb isn't something I am particularly concerned with and I'm just feeding it through an already required path.

You have 2,500+ posts so I assume you're telling me its unnecessary and not actually asking though....?
 

hebygb

New member
I would omit the UV... UV sterilization does not discriminate good or bad bacteria. Half the reason of having a fuge and a DSB is to maintain a wealth of bacteria that will be beneficial to your tank... The UV filter will just kill render that useless along with the bacteria that lives in your display. With the UV, you may find that your tank will never fully or properly cycle.
 

D5HP

New member
I would omit the UV... UV sterilization does not discriminate good or bad bacteria. Half the reason of having a fuge and a DSB is to maintain a wealth of bacteria that will be beneficial to your tank... The UV filter will just kill render that useless along with the bacteria that lives in your display. With the UV, you may find that your tank will never fully or properly cycle.

Dang I've never heard that...anyone else on this issue?

Any links about this occurring?

Thanks for the input everyone.
 
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