Sump flooding and noisy pump

[g_langley]

Hello all,

I've just completed the setup of a custom reef tank as follows;

Tank is 34"W x 30"H x 24"D and is drilled for 32mm. @ 400 litres

Filter is the sump based Aquamedic Reef 500 with the accompanying sump tank for that model.

Return pump is the Aquamedic OceanRunner 3500.

Problem 1: The sump is flooding when the power is cut. Bearing in mind the filter system is good for 500 litres, my tank is 400 litres and I have the correct sump for the filter, am I missing something here? Do I need to modify my plumbing which currently has a ball valve for the flow and the return is valve free.

Problem 2: The pump is very noisy and yet is described as silent! in the manual. How can I tame the noise/vibration.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[mfinn]

The easiest way to stop the tank from flooding the sump when the power goes out is to create a syphon break in the return line.
To do this you need to drill a small hole in the return line, (approx. 1/8th "), about a 1/2" under the waters surface in the tank.

As far as the pump being noisy, maybe a pad of some sort under the pump. I read where people use parts of a mouse pad for this.
In a sump where I've used a powerhead as a return pump, I shortened the return hose, so the the pump is bearly touching the sump bottom. Seemed to cut down on the vibration.
hth

 

[BurntOutReefer]

on flooding, try a one - way flow valve ( got mine from HomeDepot for $4.50)...

 

[SDguy]

It is best to design your system, IMO/E, to not require one way valves. They almost always eventually fail. Since your sump is plenty large, just use the anti-siphon hole as described. Just be sure to keep it clean/algae free.

hth

 

[CanadianReef]

For external pump: For the vibration go to a craft store and get fire resistant cushoin foam that is about 1" thick and pretty firm. Then cut it so it has triangle tips like this (^^^^^^^) put this under the pump footing and make sre it doesn't block any air vents. yay quiet pump.

For submerged pump: I have had great success with mouse pad 2 layers thick. You need something to change the resonance frequency of the vibration so it needs to be a little pliable.

 

[CanadianReef]

Another option to break the siphon is to have an outlet that is close enough to the waters surface that the top of the outlet will be just out of the water when it reaches equilibrium. This is the only foolproof method because a snail will be covering that sihpon hole the day you are out of town and a car knocks down you power pole. No that did not happen to me.

 

[g_langley]

Thank you guys for helping me out here...

Sump Flooding...

I had considered a one way valve, but failure is not an option.

I'm not sure about drilling the hole in the return pipe (3/4" PVC pipe). If I do that, will it no leak out? (the pump is spewing out 3500 litres an hour, give or take head)

The return is a simple straight pipe up to a 90 degree elbow into a bulkhead connector. a 45 degree elbow disperses into the tank.

Can anyone elucidate?

I'm confused?!?!?

Noisy pump...

I will take the advice on the pump and get some foam/mouse mat material to deaden the vibration.

 

[clkwrk]

Your return goes thru the back of the tank ? How high is the bulkhead? I would make sure the return is near the surface so when power goes out the water drops 1/2 inch and sucks air into the line breaking the siphon .

 

[AZDesertRat]

Plumb your return to within and inch or so of the surface so when power is interrupted no more than that amount can back siphon to the sump. Then make sure you always keep that volume free in the sump and never ever fill the sump past that point. That takes care of the return side.
How is your overflow configured? Is it an internal overflow bow with a wier close to the surface, or a hang on style? Either way again make sure it is close to the surface just like the return.
I have 3 Ocean runner pumps in my system. 2 are silent and 1 vibrates. Do you have it installed on the suction cups to cushion it? I found setting it on a rubber or foam mouse pad helps tremendously. The other is plumb it with 1" hose instead of plumbed solid with PVC. The hose or tubing allows movement where the PVC is rigid and transfers vibrations and noise throughout the system.

 

[mfinn]

If your return already is plumbed into a bulkhead going into the back of the tank, a syphon break hole will not work. I thought your return was plumbed over the top lip of the tank and down into it.
I would suggest that you look at the wye check valves. I have one that is approx 8 years old and still works.
It is different than the standard flapper valve.
You can find them at www.savko.com
They cost a little more, but they are reliable.
My first choice was the syphon break, but the wye check valve is a good second.

 

[theatrus]

The simplest method is to not put your return too deep under water. This is the path the water drains down assuming your sump is not running too full; it should probably be at about 1/2 full or less in the return area.

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7982183#post7982183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by g_langley


The return is a simple straight pipe up to a 90 degree elbow into a bulkhead connector. a 45 degree elbow disperses into the tank.

Just exactly where is this bulkhead fitting?

Is it on the bottom of the tank?
Is it on the back wall of the tank?
If it is on the backwall of the tank, how far is it from the top?

 

[g_langley]

Thanks mfinn for the advice.

The bulkhead is at the top right of the tank with the centre of the hole approx 5.5cm down from the top. The weir overflow at the left is approx 4.5cm down from the top.

The valve you suggest looks good but will it not severely impede the flow of the pump, I'm not even managing a 10x throughput as it is?

I'm still scratching my head a little on this. How does everyone else with a drilled tank and sump do it?

 

[mfinn]

I like to run my returns up over the top with pvc.
That way you can drill a small hole in the pvc, on the inside of the tank. Power goes out,, water drains to sump untill it hits the hole and air is sucked in causeing a syphon break.
If you are determined to use the return bulkhead fitting, the only way I see a solution is to use the wye check valve.
Alot of people hear the word check valve and just freak out claiming they are all going to fail.
I have been using one for quite a while now and it is holding up just fine. I do clean it out every couple months. It just makes sense. I thought that the wye valve would slow down the flow, so I did test my return with the valve and without it and I couldn't really tell. But I just used my hand in front of the output. Not very scientific.
Most tanks I've seen use the bulkheads on the back wall of a tank for closed loops, not a primary return line.
The wye check valve is my only solution to your problem. Maybe someone else can help.

 

[TG420]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7989485#post7989485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfinn
I like to run my returns up over the top with pvc.
That way you can drill a small hole in the pvc, on the inside of the tank. Power goes out,, water drains to sump untill it hits the hole and air is sucked in causeing a syphon break.

So you have deep return lines then?

If you dont mind me asking.. How is you return line plumed at the bottom of the tank. I assume you go 90degrees, and go out the side, but did you attach a fitting to the end of the line? Thats what im trying to figure out for my weekend project.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[g_langley]

Hi Andy,

Since posting my problem I have re-plumbed my return as follows;

3/4" pipe glued into pump, check valve (one way valve to stop the flooding on a power outage), ball valve (to control flow) then a 90 degree elbow out of the cabinet straight up to 90 degree elbow into the bulkhead at the top of the tank.

Thanks for mfinn about the check valve!

 

[AZDesertRat]

Don't let the check valve lull you into a false sense of security. They can and will fail. All it taks is one grain of sand or one thread of algae and you have water on the floor. You know the algae you scrape off the glass every couple of days, its building up on the valves seat also.
I think you made a poor decision as you now need to do constant maintanance on that check valve by disassembling and cleaning it monthly or quarterly and the sad thing is it is still going to fail on you one day, the odds are against you. Always plumb your returns so you have an air gap and leave sufficient room in your sump for the worst case backflow. Thats the only safe way to do it.

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8048583#post8048583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TG420
So you have deep return lines then?

If you dont mind me asking.. How is you return line plumed at the bottom of the tank. I assume you go 90degrees, and go out the side, but did you attach a fitting to the end of the line? Thats what im trying to figure out for my weekend project.

Thanks,

Andy

The main return pump on my tank is 1" pvc that goes up over the top of the tank using pvc 45's instead of 90's. My reasoning is the more gradual bend allows a little more flow than the sharp 90's.
I also use the schedule 200 pvc pipe. It's thinner wall and doesn't make a big bump ( for lack of a better word ) inside the pvc fitting.
The pipe goes up over the top and all the way down to the bottom of the tank to a bottom spray bar.
This is where the syphon break hole is necessary just below (1/2") the water line.
I also use a wye check valve as a second guard against empting the tank in a power failure.
The check valve I have has always stopped the water flow as soon as I turn the pump off and has done so every other weekend for about 8 years when I do water changes along with the occasional power outage.

g_langley check that thing on a regular basis.

 

[g_langley]

mfinn, did you blank off the return hole in your tank or did it not have one?

I will obviously need to check the check-valve when performing regular maintenance. I ended up going for a spring loaded affair as opposed to the wye-check as I am UK based and it was an easier option.

Cheers

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8050116#post8050116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by g_langley
mfinn, did you blank off the return hole in your tank or did it not have one?

I will obviously need to check the check-valve when performing regular maintenance. I ended up going for a spring loaded affair as opposed to the wye-check as I am UK based and it was an easier option.

Cheers

Well after reading this I will agree with AZDesertRat and say this will fail.
The spring will rust/weaken.
I only advocated the wye check valve because I have used it successfully for a number of years.

Don't rely on the spring loaded check valve.
If I were you I would start looking for a different solution right away.