Sump Idea

[narms72]

I'd like to design a sump that can function without risk of overflow by using two canister filters.(yes I know everyone hates canisters imagine it's just two pumps if you can't get past that please). Well I'd like to have a canister feed the sump with a float sensor in the sump to shut it off if the water level gets to high and then have another canister feed back to the display with a float sensor in the DT to prevent overflowing. The way I see it they would regulate each other. Like if the sump gets to high the first canister would stop and the other one would continue and once the other one lowered the sumps level back to an acceptable level the others canister would kick back on and vice versa. Is there something I'm missing here? This seems to simple. It's never this simple.

 

[Webmanny]

I see this as risky. If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the canister filters? Is it media or something along those lines?

I think this could work, but I don't know that I would want the risk of having three failure points and potentially burning the pumps if one of these fails.

 

[narms72]

Also I figure I would set it up like this display would go to first canister, canister would feed the first chamber of the sump, then overflow into the second chamber of the sump, and then get pumped through the second canister and back to the DT. I would have the first canister have course sponge, then fine filter pads, then in the first chamber of the sump would be a refugium, then over flow to the second chamber which includes a protein skimmer and a heater, the second canister filter would pull from the second chamber of the sump and filter the water through a ceramic biological media, and then chemical media last before returning water back to the DT. Sound Good?

 

[sdmarriott1]

There are a few of items that would concern me with this setup. First, I am not sure that you could ever count on the two canister filters moving the same amount of water since one is pumping water up to the display and the other is pumping water down to the sump. I would also worry that the canister moving water to the sump would continue to syphon in the event of a power failure. You could also be asking for trouble if your float switch got stuck as they sometimes do. Just my two cents worth.

 

[narms72]

Well I can't drill my tank and I've got two canister filter I'd like to use because I've seen great results when using them way under their capacity.

 

[narms72]

OK thanks for the speedy responses guys appreciate it. I could pretty much solve the issue of float switches being unreliable just by doubling them up. But the issue with the potential siphon issue seems very real.

 

[tigger2577]

I started this hobby off with a canister filter. I can say I had decent success as long as I was cleaning out the filter every other day and sometimes every day. they produce a lot of nitrite that can cause issues.

As time went on I got more and more lazy with the upkeep cleaning the canister filters so I switched to a sump approach. I will never go back to canister filters ever again.

but now to what you are wanting to do. I see lots of issues and lots of maintenance in your future if you do go this direction.

Issues I see
1. keeping the canister filters clean, it took me about 30-45 min to clean mine each time I did as you are basically doing a small water change also, so you can easily double your time with two of them

2. if canister filter 1 fails and no water is making it to your sump your second canister filter will pump your sump dry and you will have issues with pump running dry and breaking, this goes for you protein skimmer and also your canister filter.

3. as stated before float switches will fail at some point in time might take years or weeks who knows (just like check valves).

4. I do not see any performance gain by going this direction vs just having your tank drain directly in to your sump and a return pump.

just my two cents

~Mike

 

[anbosu]

Get an overflow box and run the canister filters into and out of your sump. Then the flow rates don't matter, and you don't need to worry about float switches.

 

[Webmanny]

Get an overflow box and run the canister filters into and out of your sump. Then the flow rates don't matter, and you don't need to worry about float switches.

+1 I think this would be the safest, but you should still walk through all the possible scenarios in case of something breaking.

i.e.
Power goes out, power returns (but return pump doesn't start), power returns (but canisters don't start), overflow siphon breaks, etc.

 

[nathan1986]

Wouldnt you want the skimmer before the refugium? I may be wrong, but if the refugium was first wouldnt whatever macro algae you had in there get clogged with frish poo faster?

 

[narms72]

Wouldnt you want the skimmer before the refugium? I may be wrong, but if the refugium was first wouldnt whatever macro algae you had in there get clogged with frish poo faster?

The first canister aka the nitrate factory should pull most solid matter out of the water.

 

[narms72]

Man I wish there was a way to make this reliable.

 

[narms72]

OK this may be the dumbest thing you have ever heard but what if from the first canister I would run its output tube all the way up the back of the tank slightly higher then the input tube and then down the sump. This would do two thing first it would equalize the height that both canisters have to pump up to and it would make sure that the siphon could never continue to flow from the DT and overflow the sump.

 

[nathan1986]

What about the pods? Id imagine you wouldnt wanna skim them up lol not trying to be negative, or being against trying something new. Im all for new ideas, but i still think at least the sump should go, skimmer in chamber 1 and refugium in chamber 2. Thats if your tank would benefit from having a nice pod population

 

[nathan1986]

And for what its worth ive been using an eshopps HOB over flow box for 3 years solid now. Its been thru power outages and not once has it broken siphon. The only time i had to start siphon is the day i set the tank up. Its a simple setup, not complicated and does its job very well.

 

[narms72]

What about the pods? Id imagine you wouldnt wanna skim them up lol not trying to be negative, or being against trying something new. Im all for new ideas, but i still think at least the sump should go, skimmer in chamber 1 and refugium in chamber 2. Thats if your tank would benefit from having a nice pod population

While that is a good point I'm no to worried about the pod population as this is going to be a predator tank with just softies. The two XP4 canisters have a combined capacity of 530 gallons. Which is right where I want to be for a 150.

 

[nathan1986]

Thats true. The tank i have the HOB overflow box on is my predator tank. Hope you figure out a way to make your idea work for you

 

[narms72]

Thats true. The tank i have the HOB overflow box on is my predator tank. Hope you figure out a way to make your idea work for you

Thanks! As much as I'd like for this to work how I want There's still more I have to figure out and as many have pointed out it may not be possible at all.

 

[nathan1986]

Thanks! As much as I'd like for this to work how I want There's still more I have to figure out and as many have pointed out it may not be possible at all.

The end result could also turn out to be way over designed. Its good to think about new ways to do things tho. In my little experience in this hobby ive had best luck with simplicity.

 

[Cperkins8]

yu will be putting an awful lot of faith in your float valves