Sump tank build thread

[Mr.Tan]

Welp, made the jump on the sump build today. First major purchase was the protein skimmer. Went to that fish place today to pick up a Reef Octopus NW110 skimmer. Well, one thing lead to another with miscommunications between the person i called and the fish information desk/workers and the wrong skimmers got sent over from storage to the store. Ended up walking out the door with a NW150 for only $10 more then what I was going to pay for the 110 (had a 30% off coupon and store credit always helps too lol) all thanks to the "fish area" supervisor Chris (i think that was his name) hooking me up with the deal, :beer: to him!

So anyways... I got the skimmer home and all assembled, sat it in my 20L tank I picked up from petco (can't beat the $1 per gallon sale) and hit up some MS paint to draw up the design/placement of baffles.

Here is where I am at:

Of the first three set of baffles, i was goin gto do the first one 10 inches tall, then the second up 1 inch from the bottom but also 10 inches tall and then the third the same as the first, 10 inches tall. Then it would spill in to the refugium area, which i am going to have some rubble LR and some chaeto, and then the third baffle as you can see was going to be 11 inches tall with a 1 inch split about 6 inches up for the water to pass through to the return side.

I was going to do a hole up top of the tank incase of an overflow (god forbid it would happen) to allow the water to drain into a overflow tank)..anyone ever do this?

Now, for the return side. I am placing this sump in the basement, I don't have the room under my tank, which is an open area and I have a dog that is nosey, so i don't want him getting in to it or also any dog hair floating in... Plus, where the tank sits at is right next the stairs that go up stairs (i am down in the lower level) which those two holes would lead right to where I am going to place the sump.. This may seem dumb to most of you, but it allows me to keep things clean and less cluttered, along with upgrade in the future and have things better and more contained down in the basement giving me more room to work with. I plan to have an ATO setup eventually with holding tanks (barrels) of premixed salt water and RO water. so having it all in one place will really help.

Now, where I need some help... I am going to run an external/dry return pump to the tank. I was looking at the Pentair Aquatics #3000 return pump (can be run as a dry pump), that does 780gph. Will this be enough to return the water to my tank? It has about a 8 foot total length for the return to tank. My next concern is the overflow and intake to the sump. Do you all think that it will have enough enertia to drain from the tank down in to sump? or will i need a pump to suck it down? For the return pump, i was going to drill a hole on the return pump side of the sump and have a 1" bulkhead feeding the pump. Mostly so I can place the pump at good spot and also leave for more room for the refugium?


I think that covers it all for now... sorry its a lot to read, but its going to be a long term build thread for not only the sump but also the DT itself!

:beer:

 

[thegrun]

A couple of things:
1. I would make the blue divider 1/2" lower than the yellow divider (9-1/2") and eliminate the short blue piece at the top of the tank as it serves no purpose.
2. You probably do not need the bubble trap as any bubbles will dissipate in the refugium, the bubble trap could be added afterwards if there was an issue. If it's not needed, it allows the refugium to be a little larger.
3. The skimmer section looks like it is a little larger than needed, I would tighten it up and make your refugium a little bigger.
4. I don't like the hole in the side of the tank idea. The return section should be sized properly to handle all the water that the DT drains when all pumps are off. If you allow water to drain out the side of the tank, when your pumps start up again, your water level will end up low by whatever amount of water passed through the side hole. This will trigger your ATO (if you don't have an ATO, plan on getting one, best thing EVER!) to make up the volume of water lost with fresh water, which will lower your salinity. I suppose you could still install the emergency drain if it was above the maximum drain-down water line, but I can't thing of any scenario short of a cataclysmic failure of the overflow (which would drain the entire DT) where the emergency drain would come into play.

 

[obaptista]

+1 for #4. You may also consider a check valve for the return if the sump capacity is below your needs.

 

[Saadatski]

sorry to change the subject, but is petco still having this sale????????

need to know cause i wanna buy a 55 gallon

and i would make sure u have a good intake chamber, i got a sump design i did on CAD, u can take idea if u want, just request it and ill attach it

 

[sponger0]

My biggest concern with your design would be once you lose power. There isnt much room for the tank to drain.

Also your skimmer is the same one I have and the height of the water isnt suppose to be higher than the output on the skimmer

 

[Mr.Tan]

A couple of things:
1. I would make the blue divider 1/2" lower than the yellow divider (9-1/2") and eliminate the short blue piece at the top of the tank as it serves no purpose.
2. You probably do not need the bubble trap as any bubbles will dissipate in the refugium, the bubble trap could be added afterwards if there was an issue. If it's not needed, it allows the refugium to be a little larger.
3. The skimmer section looks like it is a little larger than needed, I would tighten it up and make your refugium a little bigger.
4. I don't like the hole in the side of the tank idea. The return section should be sized properly to handle all the water that the DT drains when all pumps are off. If you allow water to drain out the side of the tank, when your pumps start up again, your water level will end up low by whatever amount of water passed through the side hole. This will trigger your ATO (if you don't have an ATO, plan on getting one, best thing EVER!) to make up the volume of water lost with fresh water, which will lower your salinity. I suppose you could still install the emergency drain if it was above the maximum drain-down water line, but I can't thing of any scenario short of a cataclysmic failure of the overflow (which would drain the entire DT) where the emergency drain would come into play.

1. Alright, i'll for sure do that
2. I would really rather do it now then later, saves having to tear it all back down and add them in later. I've read most people say that they are needed to cut back on bubbles because they are mostly always apparent? I don't know, im still learning... and like i said i would rather do it just as a precaution rather then having to do it later
3. I wasent sure if that was to much room or not even enough to begin with. I figured i would need a decent amount of space, no? I can most certainly shorten it up a bit... See part of #2, im going to stick with the bubble trap probably, so having some more room for the refugium never hurts!
4. That whole idea was something that was running through my head. I wasent completely set of it so I am glad you said something. I was just thinking of running an external pump and though it might work better and leave for more space to have the refugium.. However it seems like a bad idea so I guess i will avoid it haha.

sorry to change the subject, but is petco still having this sale????????

need to know cause i wanna buy a 55 gallon

and i would make sure u have a good intake chamber, i got a sump design i did on CAD, u can take idea if u want, just request it and ill attach it

i honestly have no idea, i picked the tank up last weekend..not sure how long they usually run for.

If you could attach it that would be awesome, would give me something to look at!

My biggest concern with your design would be once you lose power. There isnt much room for the tank to drain.

Also your skimmer is the same one I have and the height of the water isnt suppose to be higher than the output on the skimmer

The return pump and skimmer are going to be connected to a battery backup incase of power loss. I think it should take care of any problems with draining. However the sump itself i wasent going to have filled the entire way to allow for some water if it drains back in incase the battery backup doesnt work.

I wasent sure about that, i was hoping someone could chime in and give some input on the baffle heights... they are my biggest concern as I am unsure of them still. I was planning on putting a adapter piece on the skimmer output that reverts it back down in to the water rather then just flowing out to help cut back on splashing and noise (even though its going ot be in the basement i dont want excessive noise levels.

 

[peppie]

You may want to use a larger buklhead going to your pump. IMO 1 1/2'' would be better. Also that is a lot of head height.(8') How much flow are you going to have at the DT with that pump? I didnt see how big your tank was.
Also IMO you are asking for trouble if you dont allow enough room in your return chamber of your sump for water draining back down from the DT. Battery back up or not.

 

[sponger0]

If you put the outlet under the water level it wont allow the water to flow out properly. if your worried about the noise from it, make sure the outlet is right against the glass and its quiet. I dont have my tank runing yet but I test ran that skimmer and thats the best way to run it.

The manufacturer says that the outlet isnt suppose to be under water.

 

[Mr.Tan]

You may want to use a larger buklhead going to your pump. IMO 1 1/2'' would be better. Also that is a lot of head height.(8') How much flow are you going to have at the DT with that pump? I didnt see how big your tank was.
Also IMO you are asking for trouble if you dont allow enough room in your return chamber of your sump for water draining back down from the DT. Battery back up or not.

Well im most likely going to have the pump in the sump and not externally since most people are shooting that idea down completely... I dunno, I thought i remembered seeing it done before but no one seems to be helping me out with it and saying what needs to be done. THe tank is a 29 gallon DT, i don't know how much flow I am really after, i mean i have a 450 gph and 750 gph powerhead in the tank itself already. So whatever anyone can recommend I guess... I know thats a lot of head height, but there has to be a pump or something that can do it. Its not all just completly "up hill", it does straighten out mostly and is horizontal for a small section.

I was going to run a check valve also so water can't come back down the piping into the return section of the sump. Again, since no one seems to have a good recommendation for baffle heights what would you recommend I do to allow for more overall area in the tank?

If you put the outlet under the water level it wont allow the water to flow out properly. if your worried about the noise from it, make sure the outlet is right against the glass and its quiet. I dont have my tank runing yet but I test ran that skimmer and thats the best way to run it.

The manufacturer says that the outlet isnt suppose to be under water.

hmm, now see one other person i've talked to called coralvue and spoke with someone who told them and even showed them on the website a part that redirects the water flow down, which honestly looks like it places it under the water level? unless i'm just reading it wrong... I'll keep it pointed at glass though to keep it quiet

 

[sponger0]

Hmmm interesting well here is mine when i ran a test run.

And here's a video on my test on the skimmer.

 

[slowwrx137]

Just a suggestion but why not take the 20 gallon tank back to Petco and get a 29 gallon? Its the same footprint only taller and if you leave your baffles the same height as your original picture it'll give you a lot more room for overflow from the main tank if the pump shuts off.

 

[sponger0]

Oh yeah I meant to show you my build of my sump...thought maybe that would help. I used a 30 gallon. First baffle after the skimmer is 9" tall, baffle before fuge is 11, baffle after fuge is 10" and the one before the return pump is 9.

 

[Mr.Tan]

Just a suggestion but why not take the 20 gallon tank back to Petco and get a 29 gallon? Its the same footprint only taller and if you leave your baffles the same height as your original picture it'll give you a lot more room for overflow from the main tank if the pump shuts off.

i wish i could, but its been over 2 weeks now and I dont have any of the stickers/papers that came inside of the tank for display purposes (although i still have receipt)... I don't think they will let me return it without them ? I only paid $21 for the tank, if all else fails i'll just use it for something else down the line, like having a constant QT/hospital tank setup and running i dunno.

Oh yeah I meant to show you my build of my sump...thought maybe that would help. I used a 30 gallon. First baffle after the skimmer is 9" tall, baffle before fuge is 11, baffle after fuge is 10" and the one before the return pump is 9.

that helps a lot! thanks... the middle baffle between the first one coming from skimmer and the one before the fuge, how tall is that? and i assume it has a 1" gap underneath for water to pass through? Im going to try and set mine up the same way, since it seems like those heights that you used would also work good in my 20L... im really considering buying a 29G tank and using that now after seeing all of this... i wish the people in my previous thread told me to get a 29g instead of a 20 long when I asked them.

I also re-read my other thread in the filter/lighting section.. I think that piece I mentioned just points the water back down at the actual sump water and isn't over the level of the gate valve...just to help decrease the noise and splashing...

Do you need the three baffles after the refugium? I've seen some tanks where it is just one baffle..



also, did you use glass for the baffles? and how thick is it? :beer:

 

[sponger0]

My middle baffles are 12" with a 1.5" area between the floor and bottom of the baffle.

Well Im not sure if I needed 3 baffles after the fuge, but I feel better with three or my I have that much of a need for symetry lol. I have been known to be that way lol. I did consider doing just 1 after the fuge to have a little more space in my fuge but I just felt better doing 3.

The acrylic I used was a quarter inch thick or .220 is how the store will list it.

Well how big is your tank? Id shoot for as big as a sump as you can and allow for room to drain the tank when you lose power/lose backup battery.

 

[Mr.Tan]

My middle baffles are 12" with a 1.5" area between the floor and bottom of the baffle.

Well Im not sure if I needed 3 baffles after the fuge, but I feel better with three or my I have that much of a need for symetry lol. I have been known to be that way lol. I did consider doing just 1 after the fuge to have a little more space in my fuge but I just felt better doing 3.

The acrylic I used was a quarter inch thick or .220 is how the store will list it.

Well how big is your tank? Id shoot for as big as a sump as you can and allow for room to drain the tank when you lose power/lose backup battery.

Alright cool... haha all good! I'm pretty much the same way with things, i like everything to be symetrical, although I don't know if I will let this follow through with the sump, but who knows how it will end up with the last set of baffles :spin1:. I was considering just doing 1 baffle splitting the fuge and return section, making it about 9 inches. So i would have ti go like this

from left to right, (skimmer being on left side)

9" then a 11" w/1" gap underneath and a 10" baffle spilling into the fuge... then splitting up the fuge and return would be a 9" baffle... i think this will allow for a good amount of water to return incase of a power outage..

So I can get away with using acrylic instead of glass? im having a heck of a time finding a place that can cut me some glass at a reasonable price here in my area... With acrylic I can just cut that myself I assume? I have a whole host of tools (band saw, table saw, etc..). I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on these baffles...

My DT is only a 29 gallon, thats why i got a 20L sump tank... I know its not a huge DT, but its what I am working right now. It has been setup and running with rock, LS, etc.. for about 70 days now. Maybe in a year or so I will upgrade to a 90 gallon, but i most likely won't until I move out (still living at home while I am in school).

 

[sponger0]

Well your definately almost doubling your water capacity so thats a good thing.

I think your design would work now.

I got my acrylic from home depot. You can use acrylic, you just want it as tight as possible cause silicone doesnt bond to acrylic.

I used a jigsaw with a standard blade and it cut fine. Just go slow cause the blade gets the acrylic hot

 

[sponger0]

And dont feel bad about the size. I think its a good beginning point. I only have a 29 biocube right now and putting together my 75 gallon, which is still a bit off.

 

[kdeyarmin]

Thanks for the info... give me some really good ideas for building mine!

 

[Mr.Tan]

Well your definately almost doubling your water capacity so thats a good thing.

I think your design would work now.

I got my acrylic from home depot. You can use acrylic, you just want it as tight as possible cause silicone doesnt bond to acrylic.

I used a jigsaw with a standard blade and it cut fine. Just go slow cause the blade gets the acrylic hot

Alright good, i keep thinking ti through in my head and it seems like it should be a successful design now... i guess there is really only one way to find out!

Good looking on the acrylic, i have a Home depot 2 minutes from my house so I will hop over there when I am done work today and check out prices, etc... Hopefully it isn't to expensive! I've heard that it will create more of a wedge (the silicone)? i hope this doesnt cause any problems, i mean if the baffles are a tight fit and the silicone can just act as a wedge I think it should be Ok? Now, will i want to place the baffle in and then just apply the silicone to the sides of the baffles at the edges where it meets the glass (hopefully that makes sense).

And awesome on the jigsaw, i kind of figured i would need to go slow so it doesnt melt/distort the acrylic. thanks for the reassurance though!


I cant thank you enough for all your help and input, next time Im in VA im gonna find you and buy you a beer haha

And dont feel bad about the size. I think its a good beginning point. I only have a 29 biocube right now and putting together my 75 gallon, which is still a bit off.

oh and i dont really feel bad about it, i just feel like most people will call me crazy for building a sump setup like I am for this tank (since i am planning a basement sump)... i like to take things to the extreme and do what most people wouldn't normally do :spin2:

 

[sponger0]

Glad to help. We all start from somewhere. And its good to know you have somewhere you can get advice. Good luck with it.