Sump tank build thread

[jer77]

An external pump does have a better look and its not in water so its less messy to maintain. I would definitely keep the drain 1''. It is better for many reasons. How big is the actual overflow, like where the teeth are? I'm trying to figure out what your limiting factor will be on how much flow you will be able to produce. For a 29g, maybe your plumbing will be fine. I was thinking you had like a 55 or a 75 and should have more flow, like around 500-750gph. You could try and test how many gph the mag7 will pump with your plumbing by pumping a bucket of water. This will show you exactly what you will get.

The heating the water issue is the same either way cause it will still heat the water from the inside.

 

[Mr.Tan]

Alright then i'll go and buy some 1" PVC tubing for the drain, i wasent quite sure and after I was looking at it and thinking I probably should keep it 1" the whole way to the sump instead of knocking it down to be 3/4".. That i don't know, Its whatever the "up to 75 gallon" overflow box is. I can check when I get home, but are you referring to size in inches or just overall volume? Yeah i mean i would imagine that my plumbing should be good for my 29 gallon, its not that big of a tank and flow should be pretty solid if everything I have been thinking through my mind goes... Do you think it would be a bad idea to purchase a flow meter? (one of those level things that goes in line with the plumbing?


im still stuck now on whether or not i should run the pump in the tank or not now after hearing what you said

 

[jer77]

That's just my experience with a Mag7. It worked better in sump. You could find that it works just fine for what you need out of sump. You don't need a flow meter, you can just test it by timing how fast it fills up a bucket. Plus it isn't much work to change it after the fact in your situation.

 

[Mr.Tan]

Word... Yeah i know everyone has different experiences with everything, I'l give it a whirl how it is and see whats good with it. If it doesnt work and isn't flowing enough i'll move it down in to the sump. I have plenty of PVC leftover incase it needs moved. I will most likely test the pump then, how do I exactly convert the timing over then to GPH? or isn't that possible?

i still keep saying in my head I should install a check valve between the return pump and the DT incase of a poweroutage (i plan to run a battery backup) but incase that runs dry before power comes on, or if it fails... Some people said its bad to do, but i feel like it can't hurt to atleast have one?

 

[Mr.Tan]

i got my glass today! looks great and fits perfect.... Quick question though, how much space should I have under the middle baffle between the skimmer section and the refugium? i was thinking that piece of glass should be up enough that there is a 1" gap underneath it.....?


also, here is how I was going to place the first piece of glass..yes, i know the gatevalve outlet is below the water level, i am going to get some eggcrate and build a stand to lift it up so it isn't sitting down in the water.... My main concern is how close i should have the first baffle to the skimmer area. Is this enough room?

 

[Mr.Tan]

nobody?

 

[jer77]

The skimmer section should be as small as you can to just fit the skimmer. The middle section, I used for a small refugium with macroalgae and some small corals, so this has a higher priority for space. The last section size is important if you don't have an ATO from your RO/DI because the smaller it is the more often you will have to fill it up with fresh topp-off water, which will be everyday for a 20L. If you make it too small you may need to fill it more than once a day.

About check valves, most of the cheaper ones are not reliable. Even the expensive ones, I bought a 1'' one for my 180 for $50 but ended up not using it, can not work sometimes. So depending solely on a check valve on your return plumbing is a scarey thought. You should plan to leave enough empty space in your refugium to accommodate the amount of water that will drain back into it when the return pump fails, and it will fail. You will eventually have an overflow of water if you don't consider this. After the first section in my old 20L sump the sections only came up to about halfway the height of the sump, so there was about 5-8g of free space. For a 29g, I would say you should accommodate for about 5g of water to siphon back into the sump during a power outage. You can lessen this by drilling a small hole in the input elbows. HTH!

 

[wizzbane15]

+1 on having the first baffle as close to the skimmer as possible. Make it a snug fit, but make sure you can get it in and out to do maintenance. You will need to take the skimmer our every 3-4 months to keep it working well for a general cleaning, twice a year at minimum.

 

[Mr.Tan]

The skimmer section should be as small as you can to just fit the skimmer. The middle section, I used for a small refugium with macroalgae and some small corals, so this has a higher priority for space. The last section size is important if you don't have an ATO from your RO/DI because the smaller it is the more often you will have to fill it up with fresh topp-off water, which will be everyday for a 20L. If you make it too small you may need to fill it more than once a day. I've been looking at the autotopoff.com dual setup, it seems nice and isn't expensive. Any input on that part?

About check valves, most of the cheaper ones are not reliable. Even the expensive ones, I bought a 1'' one for my 180 for $50 but ended up not using it, can not work sometimes. So depending solely on a check valve on your return plumbing is a scarey thought. You should plan to leave enough empty space in your refugium to accommodate the amount of water that will drain back into it when the return pump fails, and it will fail. You will eventually have an overflow of water if you don't consider this. After the first section in my old 20L sump the sections only came up to about halfway the height of the sump, so there was about 5-8g of free space. For a 29g, I would say you should accommodate for about 5g of water to siphon back into the sump during a power outage. You can lessen this by drilling a small hole in the input elbows. HTH!

Alright cool, i wasent sure If I needed a large amount of space for the skimmer to sit in or not. I would like to make sure I have enough space for a decent sized refugium because I feel it is an important part of the whole system (also the main reason I went this route of having a sump in the first place due to no room for a HOB refugium). And also I will make sure to have a decent amount of return size area for water level control, although I know I will be topping off frequently until I can get an ATO setup going. I pretty much top off my DT every other day with RO water.

I wasent solely relying on a check valve for my return, i just wasent sure if it would be a bad idea or not... I won't do it then, as I don't want any problems with it sticking or not opening or something. Where exactly would I drilll this small hole in an input elbow? Do you mean where the return line runs in to the DT itself?

+1 on having the first baffle as close to the skimmer as possible. Make it a snug fit, but make sure you can get it in and out to do maintenance. You will need to take the skimmer our every 3-4 months to keep it working well for a general cleaning, twice a year at minimum.

I wasent sure how often I would need to clean out the skimmer itself (not the collection cup), so thanks for telling me that! And also with the fitment, i'll make sure to get the glass as close as I can. I just figured that it would need a lot of water in there however its nice to have confirmation that it doesnt.

:beer:

 

[Mr.Tan]

Can anyone lend some info on how much of a gap i need under the second baffle in the bubble trap area? Im thinking about 1"should be enough? or is that to much?...also, 1" gap between each baffle also, correct?...im going to tackle this part of the build this evening so I can give it time to cure for a couple days.

 

[sponger0]

Can anyone lend some info on how much of a gap i need under the second baffle in the bubble trap area? Im thinking about 1"should be enough? or is that to much?...also, 1" gap between each baffle also, correct?...im going to tackle this part of the build this evening so I can give it time to cure for a couple days.

1.5 to 2". For yours, I would do 1.5"

 

[Mr.Tan]

is that 1.5" between each baffle and also the amount of space under the middle baffle of the bubble trap? or just 1.5" under the middle baffle?

 

[sponger0]

1 inch space between baffles and 1.5 inch space under the middle baffles

 

[Mr.Tan]

alright cool, i thought that was what you meant but I wanted to clarify before i got to work tonight... thanks!

 

[sponger0]

alright cool, i thought that was what you meant but I wanted to clarify before i got to work tonight... thanks!

Cant wait to see your sump built. When will you be getting it done?

 

[Mr.Tan]

i wish i knew! So far i have almost all the return plumbing complete,both holes drilled in the wall, and now I need to do the baffles in the sump and then I can work on the overflow portion of the build. I have everything that I need (parts wise) so im not waiting on anything...I'm gonna say that by the weekend it SHOULD be some what done and hopefully have a test run going to check for leaks, etc..

 

[sponger0]

I know how you feel lol. I have all my equip. But I need to modify my stand a little more, paint it, build a canopy. And I think Ill be ready for water, sand and rock. But the stand is gonna be something very unique some Im taking my time with it

 

[jsehlms]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but the mag pumps (7,9,12,18) are meant to have 1.5" pipe on the output. Although the outlet is 3/4, you should immediately go from 3/4" to 1.5" and run that up to your output with a reducer right before your output. This will allow the least amount of friction in the line and get you closer to the true rated gph rating. This is why you add a ball valve on the output, so you can dial back the output.

On the ball valve, don't just use any ball valve, use a true union valve or at least a full port ball valve (they're a few bucks more expensive than the standards). The standard ball valves are actually smaller diameter through the valve, therefore it becomes another restriction.

I have the NWB150 in 9" of water and it works great.

I have a mag 9.5 and didn't read the manual when I setup my tank to begin with and used 3/4" piping. It's amazing how much more flow you get when you use the actual recommended piping (1.5"). Especially with your 8' of head, that will limit the mag 7 to a meager output.

 

[jer77]

Ya, I would look into true union ball valves before and after an external pump. They can be expensive, around $30 each for 1'', but they allow for easy maintenance. I totally agree with jsehlms with using a larger pvc diameter for both the input and output from your Mag7. This will allow the pump to run close to full efficiency with little head loss from friction.

 

[Mr.Tan]

the outlet and inlet on my mag7 are both 1/2", that is why i went with 3/4" for both... I read over the instructions front and back and even looked at the box and it says nothing about the diameter pipe/tubing to run, just that it has those size inlet and outlet (1/2").

Also, I am using true union valves to help with ease in maintanence. My head height isn't actually 8' , i ran it over it and did measuring and its more like 6 feet (still a good amount but not quite the 8' i thought it would be).