swollen mouth

[mystrybird]

Need some help finding out what the problem is. My puffer is having trouble eating. 2 weeks ago I lost my blenny but did not think much about it as it was old. The most notable thing was that it's mouth appeared swollen the last two weeks before it died.

But now my puffer is acting the same way and I am worried! It's hard to tell with puffer mouths but if it is swollen it is not bad. It just seems to be unable to bite down the last two days. At first I thought that my kids had fed him again (I caught on of the boys a few months ago charging their friends a dollar to feed the puffer.. Don't ask......) But because of the blenny I think there is more going on. I only have 2 other fish in this tank now and they are a mated pair of clowns. So don't want to lose them.

I have looked at bacterial and fungal disease but can't really find a match. I know most list a cause of water quality and I have tested 3X today and have ruled that out. This is in my main display tank so it is a little urgent. (contains just the 3 fish, LR, few inverts and coral) Clowns are fine at the moment.

I will have a problem finding space if I need to treat the puffer. The only empty tank at the moment would be a 10 gal and he is too big for that.

But first I need to figure out what I need to treat. Thanks!!!
If I could get help right away that would be great! I live a long distance away from a LFS and my son will be in that area tomorrow if I do not have what I need on hand.

SG is 1.025
The nitrates were slightly elevated but under 40.
But I am sure they were up because of the krill I used to entice the puffer to eat sunk and sat overnight. Just did a 10 gal water change and sucked out the waste before posting.
ph was around 7.5
weekly water change due on Sunday. (75 gal tank) but will be done tomorrow if the trates are still up in the am.

 

[sugartooth]

Have you ruled out toxins from outside source? (kids?) Are the fish breathing heavily?
If you need to remove the puffer to isolate him, you can get a large rubbermaid container or brute can to treat. They also sell large tubs for a reasonable price (50-100 gal. tubs) at Farm and Fleet for about $40-$60.

In my experience when a fish stops eating, it is a pretty bad sign. You need to act quickly. You should also see a quick improvement if you correct the problem.

 

[Percula9]

I think your fish is sick from the stress of low PH. A ph of 7.5 is really not acceptable. Bring PH to 8.3. Unless your post is a mistake.

 

[mystrybird]

I have not totaly ruled out all toxins. I have ruled out the kids though. They are old enough to know better. They also learned real quick to keep their friends in check and away from my tank once I posted a list on the wall of how much $$ they would have to come up with if my tank crashed.

I also re checked my ph after I posted and again today with a liquid test kit. That came out to 8.0 Now I remember why I never did trust the dip strips. After a water change all the N's and O's were zero.

I have thought about using the tubs for the puffer. But they can't be used for very long can they?

The clowns are fine so far. But to have two fish with what seems to be the same problem in such a short period of time worries me. I have also had more problems than I have had in all the years I have had tanks since I purchased two new pieces of rock a few months ago. Is it possible something is comming from the rock? (parasites)? had my son pick up a a bunch of meds so that I have every base covered.

The only option I can think of right now is to move a bunch of things around and leave my display fishless for a few months. (except for the mated pair of Damsels. I think I will put them in there so I have a place for the Clowns) Those mean fish are in a rock tank and kill everything. Put a peppermint in there to take care of the aspasia and they killed it in less than 6 hrs.

But still need to figure out what I need to treat. I have the ability to do my own gram stains and cultures. But can't find any information on how to get them from a fish. And how would I be able to get them from a Puffer??? He is gonna inflate for sure! And it is really hard to handle them when inflated. I am still trying to figure out how to even get him out. Found out quick he was to large for the container I use to get other fish out.

Last thing to say is, I know that a puffer can go for quite some time without food. So I don't think he will starve right away. I have gotten him to eat some softer treats but you need to hear that cruching sound from a puffer when it eats once in a while before it leads to other trouble.

Thanks!!

 

[Percula9]

Try Melafix it might help.

 

[tmz]

I have two puffers and limited expertise on their ailments.
I have read that lockjaw can occur from a diet consisting mainly of krill. Apparently its missing some needed nutrients. I feed mine some krill,bloodworms, mysis,brine,spirulina flake and prime reef flake as well as a clip of dried seaweed.Healthy for two years.
I have also read that without food to crunch like crabs and mollusk shells their teeth can become overgrown. Good luck.

 

[mystrybird]

Percula9
I don't think this is a case for melafix. Pimafix in a pinch, but still not strong enough if I have a serious problem.

tmz
Not lockjaw for sure. My blennie died two weeks ago and had a swollen mouth area. Puffer's mouth does not appear swollen yet but is not eating right and spiting things back out. (much like the blennie did in the beginning)

His diet also contains more than krill. I only feed the krill as a treat and not very often. I said earlier that I tried to entice him with some, so maybe that is where you thought he was on a krill only diet.

Can anyone direct me to someone or a site that can help me figure out what I am dealing with? Or some advice on how to figure this out?

Puffer was still very interested in eating yesterday. Just looks like he can't bite it all the way? Mouth closes completly, puffer just appears to play and chase the food around. It's not because of overfeeding, ((ruled that out)) Just wants to eat but cant?

TIA

 

[tmz]

Didn't mean to imply you were feeding only krill. I was just laying it out there for your information.. There is a lady listed aon this site as Puffer Queen. She is renowed for her expertise and care of these fish. She might be able to help if you can find her. If not you may wan't to search through her old threads to see if you can get a clue on your situation. Wish Icould be more helpful.

 

[mystrybird]

Hey, that's OK.
Like I said, I don't think this is a "puffer only" problem. Because of a similar death of an unreleated fish, I think something else is wrong. Parasite, Fungal or Bacterial? Need to figure out how to determine what one. Nothing is obvious except for a swollen mouth. Not seeing any fungal or parasite clues that are obvious either.
Need some ideas on what else I can test for, how to test them, and how to take a sample from a porcupine puffer. Or is there anything else I can test to figure out the cause of the "swollen mouth" area without testing the puffer?

BTW, If anyone is up reading this before daylight. Get outside for the Meteor shower if your skies are clear! That's the reason I am up at this hour. I never miss any of the big showers. I am stuck at the computer waiting and hoping the sky will clear in my area right now. Maybe someone else will be able to enjoy!

 

[tmz]

This link may be of some help.
http://www.sharkysreef.com/catalog//vetcorner.php?osCsid=5886c7a661c2ea9f7d97ef2000c484a9

 

[mystrybird]

Thank you tmz! That link will help quite a bit.

Still can't figure out how to get the puffer out. But I did find a plastic bowl that will both fit into the tank and hold that puffer in an inflated state safely.

 

[tmz]

Let me know how it works out and what you learn so I can be ready if my puffers are similarly afflicted someday.

 

[mystrybird]

tmz, would you mind if I sent you a pm? I think I may have stumbled upon something I never would have thought of.

As I was making my list of what I do differently from tank to tank, I found one that stands out above the rest. Just not sure how to tie it in. You seem to know where to look and that is why I ask.
Thanks

 

[tmz]

Feel free to pm. I'll try to help.