T5 HO vs T5 VHO and other ?'s

[rsteagall]

Which of these flavors would you rather have and why?

First off I would think the T5 VHO would reduce bulb life because its overdriving the standard bulb? True?

What is the life expectancy of T5 bulbs?

 

[gflat65]

I've seen it posted several times that T5's will last 18-24 months, which means I'd replace them no less often than once a year (more often if needed). Running Icecap T5 set ups will overdrive the bulbs, reducing life even further. From what I hear, you get a lot more bang for the buck with an IceCap, though (something like from 24W to 40W on 24" bulbs).

 

[NeveSSL]

I've not heard of T5VHOs, unless you're talking about overdriving T5HOs with IceCaps. I think it does reduce the life, but not by much IF you actively cool them with fans.

I think life expectancy on T5s is 12 to 18 months or so.

Brandon

 

[rsteagall]

Ya... I'm talking about 36" flavor of:
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/IceCap/SLR_Retrofit_Kits/

So...which would you guys do? You can do ho or vho with icecap. Right now I'm thinking just normal HO for reduced initial costs and reduced reoccurring costs.

 

[crumbletop]

Personally, I do not want any more light/par in my tank than I currently get with a 6x54 watt regular setup in my 90. If my tank were 30" deep, I think I'd opt for an overdriven setup, but with 24" and below I think overdriving puts out more light than you need.

 

[rsteagall]

The 36"ers are 39W though. I'm considering two of these:

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5...5_High-Output_Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_IceCap <-link fixed

For a 72 x 30 x 25 Tall tank. Additional thoughts?

 

[NeveSSL]

Should work fine. FWIW, I got the 36" retrofit kit and I think my lights were right around 34.3 from standoff to standoff... give take half an inch.

One thing to keep in mind is that IceCap is about to come out with a dimmable T5 ballast soon... so you could get the retro kit you linked and upgrade to those later, or you could buy the kits that come with IceCaps. I'm not sure if you're interested in dimming or not, but it will be out soon. They told me in the IceCap forum by the end of this year and it has also been demonstrated (but now shown) at some of the trade shows recently.

Brandon

 

[rsteagall]

Interesting... dimmable.... any idea how or what controls this?

 

[NeveSSL]

Probably voltage just like the 660s that dim VHOs now. I'm looking forward to it because Aquatronica is working on a DC Voltage control module... I could use it for everything from dimming lights, moonlights, Tunze control... all kinds of stuff. Not sure when they'll be releasing it, though.

Anyway, dc voltage is how its controlled.

Brandon

 

[DMBillies]

I'm with Jack. I think overdriving is only "necessary" if you are unwilling or unable to put more bulbs over your tank. Your run of the mill T5 retros are going to put out plenty of light for just about any coral, just put your light lovers closer to the top. This is particularly true if you can get your T5's pretty close to the water surface (my PAR readings were very telling as far as how the distance of the lights above the water affects the amount of light that actually seems to penetrate the surface).

Here's some calculations to get everyone thinking about power consumption issues in the hobby... (vomit alert). I think it might help make the decision:

I am assuming what you might typically use for a 36" long x 18" wide x 24" high tank with an 8 hour light cycle, lighted 365 days/year, at an electric rate .08kWh. For the 39W T5HO, I am assuming a light change every 12 months and for the 60W over-drive I am assuming a light change every 12 (these light change cycles are probably a little optimistic).

-----Regular HOT5
39W per bulb x 6 bulbs x 8 hrs = 1,872W/day = 683,280W/year = 683.2kW/year

683.2 x $.08 = $54.66 per year to light the tank

-----Over-drive T5
60W per bulb x 6 bulbs x 8 hrs = 2,880W/day = 1,051,200W/year = 1,051.2kWh/year

1,051.2kWh/year = $84.10 per year to light the tank

$30 difference isn't much in a year, but each little thing that costs a bit more adds to the total you spend on reefing. Also, let's look at how your two lighting options pan out over a 6 year period...

Intial Cost: 6x39W retro from the site you listed $439 as compared to $609 for the 60W.

Bulb replacement: Assuming $20/bulb x 6 bulbs per change-out cycle, you're looking at about $120 (conservative) per bulb change for both set-ups. But, you get 6 more months out of the regular HO's, so in 6 years you only replace them 4 times instead of 6. 39W = $480 in 6 years, 60W = $720 in 6 years

Total cost over 6 years:
39W: $439 initial + $327.96 energy + $480 bulbs = $1,246.96
60W: $609 initial + $504.60 energy + $720 bulbs = $1,833.60

For a total cost difference of $586.64
About $70/year just in upkeep costs alone (bulbs and energy)

I don't know about you, but when I pile that on top of what I pay to run return pumps, heaters, fans, powerheads, fuge lights, my A/C to offset the additional heat from the tank and evap, etc. I begin to question my sanity for being in this hobby at all...

Use a few extra bucks to find a way to get the standard T5's 6 inches closer to the tank and save yourself the money.

 

[NeveSSL]

Gee, Brian... way to point out the facts and ruin it for everybody.



Brandon

 

[fallinapart]

Hmmm, I've been running 2 250 MH and 2 48" VHO's and 5 hood fans and cooler. (had a heater but never seen it on ). And now I have one 8 bulb T-5 unit so hopefully my electric bill will say "thanks" and thanks Brian for all that info.

Norman

 

[waynesworld]

Ryan what ballast are they using in that 3' kit you are looking at and how many are there?

 

[waynesworld]

Brian what about the cost savings of just running 6 80 watt bulbs? Initial cost of $400?

 

[NeveSSL]

Those 3' kits should have either Universal Accustarts or the Vossloh-Schwabe (which came with mine). There would be three of them, but they're really compact... probably 1"x8" or so....

Brandon

 

[DMBillies]

Wayne - 6 x 80W vs. 12 x 39W (I assume this is what you're asking) is essentially a wash as far as power consumption. There's only like a $5 difference in bulbs (about $25 instead of $20), but you'll have half as many to replace when it comes time so you'd be saving roughly $90 per year in bulbs. And start-up cost is whatever you can find them for, but if you can get a 6 x 80W for $400 you're doing pretty good.

There's an electricity calculator on the RC homepage (http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/tank_elec_calc.php )

The only thing about that calculator is that you still need to do some hand calculations before you can use it.

 

[waynesworld]

Well I am looking at using a workhorse ballast that is half the cost of the Icecap but does have a little less par in the test I seen but like jack I am not sure you need all the par that you can get. I may also mix the WH and the IC ballast using the wh to drive the blue lights and the IC to do the whites.

 

[rsteagall]

There aren't nearly the amount of bulb choices when you to to a 80W setup / 6' bulbs. However, maybe the ones available is all you really need. I have considered the setup. It would simplify it using 80w/6' bulbs though. That would definitely be more Watts per Gallon with 8x80w.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11713449#post11713449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by waynesworld
Well I am looking at using a workhorse ballast that is half the cost of the Icecap but does have a little less par in the test I seen but like jack I am not sure you need all the par that you can get. I may also mix the WH and the IC ballast using the wh to drive the blue lights and the IC to do the whites.

I could be wrong on this, but I don't think work horse ballasts are gentle on the bulbs. I think you want a ballast that does program start that is supposed to be gentler on the bulb startup. The standard ballasts that come with the kits are program start.

 

[waynesworld]

I have heard that from some others that looked at it but yet to see anyone that use them to say they had any problems with the bulbs.

Ryan the bulbs are 60" not 6' but when you put them in the hood a little stager and you get good coverage but a lot easier. And I have found all the bulbs that I was wanting that size.