T5's: A cautionary note
- Thread starter gregt
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johns
Premium Member
Codeman00 said:
I contacted hem earlier this month and they told me that they needed precise lengths for the bulbs (minus pins) I wanted and could provide a number of differen sizes (46.5", 46", 47", 45.5")
Turns out they didn't have many of the sizes in stock at the time and expected to get them all back in a few weeks to a month.
I wonder if you will be getting the same info from them. Whatever you find out, please post it here, as I found them to me a bit difficult to communicate with myself. Took me 4 or 5 days of emails back and forth about bulb sizes and questions and then they didnt have them.
Also, make sure you take those ATIs and measure them yourself. Dont go by what you hear is right. they may or may not be 46.5 inches.
jnb
Premium Member
are the two mh's independtly wired so i can have the east lite come on first then about 11 am the other then 4 just the west light - i hopeihopeihope
FastUno said:Pic1: Brain under T5's after reducing number of bulbs, shortening exposure time, & shading. And what finally broke the Camel's back.
Pic2: Brain under MH/T5's now.
FastUno
New member
My fault? Believe me I debated for a while before starting this thread way back when. I did not want to be the bad guy, but inevitable it appears to have come to this.
I tried to share & maybe help others, but I will keep to myself from here on end. Grim, why don't you start a new thread & we wont post in here anymore, but instead in the new thread. Lets let this one finally die out.
As for all of you who have gone from strictly T5 to MH, I dare you to slap your T5's back on. Is there a single person that went back?
Not many people have commented on the pictures & growths. I had more to post, just had to find the older pre-MH shots. Do you think that I am just fooling myself with the growth observations? Perhaps trying to justify my purchase? I've tried to be as fair as possible & would have even thrown my T5 fixture back on had the outcome told me otherwise.
On a lighter T5 note, I PM'd dhoch & he is still doing fine with his setup. I think he has one of the best T5 setups that I have seen. His tank looks very natural & mild. All corals look healthy & grow. Grim you tell us why this is true? What is the secret, because I would have loved for mine to completely work for me.
I tried to share & maybe help others, but I will keep to myself from here on end. Grim, why don't you start a new thread & we wont post in here anymore, but instead in the new thread. Lets let this one finally die out.
As for all of you who have gone from strictly T5 to MH, I dare you to slap your T5's back on. Is there a single person that went back?
Not many people have commented on the pictures & growths. I had more to post, just had to find the older pre-MH shots. Do you think that I am just fooling myself with the growth observations? Perhaps trying to justify my purchase? I've tried to be as fair as possible & would have even thrown my T5 fixture back on had the outcome told me otherwise.
On a lighter T5 note, I PM'd dhoch & he is still doing fine with his setup. I think he has one of the best T5 setups that I have seen. His tank looks very natural & mild. All corals look healthy & grow. Grim you tell us why this is true? What is the secret, because I would have loved for mine to completely work for me.
Codeman00
Premium Member
I'll speak up as a T5 to MH example....I had 4T5s/2VHOs and now I have 175 XM10Ks w/2 VHOs.
I personally bought my T5s because of all the good stuff I read about them being the new thing, etc...and in fact, it was at the beginning of this thread. By the time I got my T5s going, Uno switched to halides which kind of ****ed me off a bit because he has been a great deal of help and a wealth of information on T5s and now the difference between T5s and MH.
After replacing my T5s, I have noticed the following.... My green digitata which I thought was growing fast with the T5s is growing at a more incredible rate. My blue tort frag is finally showing life...Its not growing fast yet, but its finally spreading out like its suppose to. My green stylophora finally started another limb, and my toadstool which looked almost dying with the T5s is now full of life with extended polyps. My mushrooms are now getting back in the light and spreading out instead of hiding inside the rocks. One more thing is my orange digata finally started to grow. Coincidence?? I don't know..but if this is the beginning of the growth, I can't wait to see what's ahead. Hard telling what I would be seeing with 250Wers.
I'm okay with letting this thread die and starting a new one..but FastUno does have some valid points and he's only trying to help. I was resistant at first, but I know think he's exactly right.
I still think you can have either a softy tank with 2T5s or SPS with overdriven 4-6 bulbs, but having both of them is tough and there are corals that won't react well to either or.
I personally bought my T5s because of all the good stuff I read about them being the new thing, etc...and in fact, it was at the beginning of this thread. By the time I got my T5s going, Uno switched to halides which kind of ****ed me off a bit because he has been a great deal of help and a wealth of information on T5s and now the difference between T5s and MH.
After replacing my T5s, I have noticed the following.... My green digitata which I thought was growing fast with the T5s is growing at a more incredible rate. My blue tort frag is finally showing life...Its not growing fast yet, but its finally spreading out like its suppose to. My green stylophora finally started another limb, and my toadstool which looked almost dying with the T5s is now full of life with extended polyps. My mushrooms are now getting back in the light and spreading out instead of hiding inside the rocks. One more thing is my orange digata finally started to grow. Coincidence?? I don't know..but if this is the beginning of the growth, I can't wait to see what's ahead. Hard telling what I would be seeing with 250Wers.
I'm okay with letting this thread die and starting a new one..but FastUno does have some valid points and he's only trying to help. I was resistant at first, but I know think he's exactly right.
I still think you can have either a softy tank with 2T5s or SPS with overdriven 4-6 bulbs, but having both of them is tough and there are corals that won't react well to either or.
jnb
Premium Member
I hope you know I am kidding - I had to try it and you helped more than you know - I've been following your quest for sometime. I am keeping my t-5 fixture and almost hope I go back to it although I am betting I don't . It will probably go on a sister tank within 6 months. You are not the bad guy - I had the same problems on a smaller scale - had mh in 92 before we had these color choices, got the t-5s when i came back to reefing - enough said - I aplogize if it sounded like I was not fair. - this thread is valuable tool for those trying to decide.
FastUno said:
amheck
New member
So is this the bottom line of this whole thread: T5's are great for a all-low light tank (maybe 2-4 bulbs) or great for an all SPS tank (6-8 bulbs) but if you want a mixture of animals, MH is the way to go? I've been readind this thread for a while and have been trying to determine what exactly the concensus was.
The bummer with that, at least for me, is that I want a smaller tank (30-40g) and I guess they all have center braces, which kinda sucks for the single MH bulb. The T5 obviously work much better with the center brace.
Aaron
The bummer with that, at least for me, is that I want a smaller tank (30-40g) and I guess they all have center braces, which kinda sucks for the single MH bulb. The T5 obviously work much better with the center brace.
Aaron
Codeman00
Premium Member
That was my experience with them....they just throw so much PAR down to the bottom of the tank that when you crank up the light for SPS, the softies tend to start burning up or hiding back in the rocks. when I was running 2 T5s and one VHO, the softies loved it and were much more colorful than under halides. After I was running T5s / 2VHOs, I got GREAT color, but the mushrooms wouldnt flatten out and others detached themselves til they could get in the rocks. I've seen some great T5 tanks where people dont experience these problems (like rjwilson), but I have used them and I had some issues.
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
I will be starting a thread in a few months about my journey from T5 to halide and back to T5. Not to say halides don't work but I prefer the look of the T5 and now that I know how pwerful they are I can take steps to make them work for a mixed reef.
I don't think you should let the thread die. There is a ton of useful information here, both positive and negative. That is the best way for people to make an informed decision about lighting. There are too many wives tales and outdated information about lighting. Practical real world experiences listed here are very useful for those trying to choose their lighting.
I don't think you should let the thread die. There is a ton of useful information here, both positive and negative. That is the best way for people to make an informed decision about lighting. There are too many wives tales and outdated information about lighting. Practical real world experiences listed here are very useful for those trying to choose their lighting.
FastUno
New member
jnb, I know you were kidding. Seems like there are more confused people after reading this thread, which I never intended to be the goal. I think they are confused because of all the difficulties with lighting. It has that many more factors associated that it becomes challenging to pinpoint the exact cause of a particular outcome.
For instance, Codeman mentions RJWilsons' successful T5 system. I think the success of RJ's system lies in the fact that his setup is only 39W & not the 54W that the rest of us are using. Are two of his bulbs Blue+'s (even less pars)? If you take notice to his two brains (red & green), earlier & late pictures, you will see that they have somewhat deteriorated. I did not tell anyone, but my prediction is that ultimately they won't make it.
Grim, where is our new thread link?
That is a great generalization, but there will always be someone who breaks the mold. All depending on the corals they have, what type of exposure those corals have been used to, their maximum exposure tolerance...etc. To figure T5's out I think it's best to focus on the systems that are doing well. We can further scrutinize successfull systems & hopefully come to a set of conclusions.
For instance, Codeman mentions RJWilsons' successful T5 system. I think the success of RJ's system lies in the fact that his setup is only 39W & not the 54W that the rest of us are using. Are two of his bulbs Blue+'s (even less pars)? If you take notice to his two brains (red & green), earlier & late pictures, you will see that they have somewhat deteriorated. I did not tell anyone, but my prediction is that ultimately they won't make it.
Grim, where is our new thread link?
RedEyeReef
Active member
Someone give a link here is you start a new thread.
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
Let me at least get the fish room built before I start the thread.
It will be nice hot chocolate and schnaps reading for those of us living in the north country.
It will be nice hot chocolate and schnaps reading for those of us living in the north country.
FastUno
New member
WOW. I have not seen RJ's tank in some months & just went to his thread, but it looks like the lights have taken their toll on the brains. Green brain on front left & red one on front right. I think he keeps them in the front because there is less light there. I was so jealous of that red brain, it was to die for.
But look at the rest of his corals, he has some great growth. Again I think attributed to the lower output 39W T5's.
Grim, I can't wait for your new thread. Get this monkey off my back.
But look at the rest of his corals, he has some great growth. Again I think attributed to the lower output 39W T5's.
Grim, I can't wait for your new thread. Get this monkey off my back.
FastUno
New member
Yea, very right corner, looks more whitish now, with some pink.
It was indescribable, so pretty looking & seems to be rare. I was looking all over for that exact one & could not find it. Come to think of it I am glad that I did not get one. It would have gone too. I felt I was displaying cruelty to animals after a few weeks under my only T5 system.
I gave it up to another dude who had MH only system & he was able to revive it thankfully.
I would be suspicious about the maze brain, but it looks like he has it partially shaded. My maze brain did well in my 24W T5's that I started out with & then lousy with the 54W over time.
It was indescribable, so pretty looking & seems to be rare. I was looking all over for that exact one & could not find it. Come to think of it I am glad that I did not get one. It would have gone too. I felt I was displaying cruelty to animals after a few weeks under my only T5 system.
I gave it up to another dude who had MH only system & he was able to revive it thankfully.
I would be suspicious about the maze brain, but it looks like he has it partially shaded. My maze brain did well in my 24W T5's that I started out with & then lousy with the 54W over time.
johns
Premium Member
So is this the bottom line of this whole thread: T5's are great for a all-low light tank (maybe 2-4 bulbs)
Thats a safe bet
or great for an all SPS tank (6-8 bulbs)
I would jump that far at all. I've been reading about this subject for a couple years myself, and by MOST accounts, you will get better coloraton and growth in an SPS tank with an MH system. I'm not going to say that's always the case. Because we all know there are no rules here, only generalizations.
I have one more question for FastUno:
What makes you think that the reason that some of your corals were not doing well in the T5 system was due to TOO MUCH light? How do you know it was not due to TOO LITTLE light? Or the wrong type of light? Or water quality? Or even how mature the tank was at the time as opposed to now.
I'm not asking this to be mean or confrontational. I'm just curious, and I also want to bring up a point. And that is that it's very hard to make conclusions like this with almost any system.
I too went from T5 to MH on my tank. I think I pre-dated you on the start of my T5 system by only few months and pre-dated my switch to MH by a few months as well. But I did it only because my tank was quickly becoming predominantly SPS. I had many of the same soft corals and LPS (mushrooms, zoos, brains, hammers, frogapawn, you name it) and the start of some SPS that all fared quite well under the T5s. And that's with 6 x 54 W on a smallish (75G) tank, with a photperiod lasting 12 to 14 hours a day.
Thats a safe bet
or great for an all SPS tank (6-8 bulbs)
I would jump that far at all. I've been reading about this subject for a couple years myself, and by MOST accounts, you will get better coloraton and growth in an SPS tank with an MH system. I'm not going to say that's always the case. Because we all know there are no rules here, only generalizations.
I have one more question for FastUno:
What makes you think that the reason that some of your corals were not doing well in the T5 system was due to TOO MUCH light? How do you know it was not due to TOO LITTLE light? Or the wrong type of light? Or water quality? Or even how mature the tank was at the time as opposed to now.
I'm not asking this to be mean or confrontational. I'm just curious, and I also want to bring up a point. And that is that it's very hard to make conclusions like this with almost any system.
I too went from T5 to MH on my tank. I think I pre-dated you on the start of my T5 system by only few months and pre-dated my switch to MH by a few months as well. But I did it only because my tank was quickly becoming predominantly SPS. I had many of the same soft corals and LPS (mushrooms, zoos, brains, hammers, frogapawn, you name it) and the start of some SPS that all fared quite well under the T5s. And that's with 6 x 54 W on a smallish (75G) tank, with a photperiod lasting 12 to 14 hours a day.
The Grim Reefer
Ready for some NOBALL!!!
Feel free to carry on the argument here 
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=674343
We'll make it a little easier for newcomers to the debate to follow along. I intend to make T's work on a mixed reef, again.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=674343
We'll make it a little easier for newcomers to the debate to follow along. I intend to make T's work on a mixed reef, again.
jnb
Premium Member
me got shimmers - did not receive xm20k so I went my lfs and paid too much for 14k Hamilton they did not have 20k in second pic is new lights without t-5s running and the pic is not so color right but thought I would show - now I hope to have my brain less stressed - (mine and the one on the right hand side front) it/he/she (how do we tell) has never had a nice texture and color since I got it under t-5s while the day I adopted it it was beautiful texture and red/green
I had 4 of my 6 bulbs , on a three foot tek over a four ft tank, on today and am thinking of running two for more hrs of the day - I struggle - the green mushrooms circled are fried looking= I wonder if I can get away with 2 mh at 150 or 175 in the fixture fastuno has now - I hate stress in my tank - I don't need bright - I dive 1oo times a year and gloomy does not impact me - but I do like color pop - I friggin stressed over the right lite
t-5
[/B][/QUOTE]
mh first photo color is whiter than this
I had 4 of my 6 bulbs , on a three foot tek over a four ft tank, on today and am thinking of running two for more hrs of the day - I struggle - the green mushrooms circled are fried looking= I wonder if I can get away with 2 mh at 150 or 175 in the fixture fastuno has now - I hate stress in my tank - I don't need bright - I dive 1oo times a year and gloomy does not impact me - but I do like color pop - I friggin stressed over the right lite
t-5
mh first photo color is whiter than this
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