tang needs immediate help. ich taking him down. help!

[fairladyZ]

So I got ich in my 90 gallon and was waiting for new 210 to establish. While doing so tried to figure out best route to treat ich. After Steves advice I decided on tank transfer. Got all set up and decided I would start with 3 little fish for the first go. So I have a dartfish, mandarin, and blenny in first round of TT. Problem is while pulling all my rock to catch said fish my tang took a tragic turn. 1 day after he was listing and went belly up lastnight. I instantly tried to do the salinity a little and kicked the flow way way up. I thought he was a goner but after about an hour of being upside down he turned over and is very roughly and lethargic while swimming. Would it help him if I put a low dose of copper in the tank? I can pull all the rock again but wouldn't be able to get all the sand. Its him, 2 clowns, 2 darfish, and a radiant wrasse left in the tank. Only inverts are random snails, worms and pods. So if I put in cupramine in a low dose would it affect anything or crash the tank with the die off since no rock will be in there?

The TT fish are getting moved to tank 2 tomorrow morning. I really don't want to loose any fish. Please help

 

[Cujo13]

Do you have a final QT tank to hold the fish until they all go through TTM?

Your snails worms and pods stand a pretty good chance as being toast with copper. Your rock and sand will absorb it and cannot be used again due to leeching it out later. I might just observe for a while and see how he does.

 

[fairladyZ]

No I don't have a set qt for them when ttm is finished. I was just gong to ttm and prazi pro on 2nd and 4th transfer then aslong as no signs of ich put them in my 210dt. The sand I will throw out once I get all the fish thru ttm out of my 90 gallon. The Rock I already have a buyer for so will pull that out before I put in copper. I can wait and see but I'm not sure he will make it much longer. He's lost all color and almost looks like he has some skin peeling off

 

[Cujo13]

It may take a while before any signs would show up if by chance you transferred any of the ich. It would be best to monitor for a while after TTM since this seems to be your first experience with it. I would not want to see you go through this again in the 210.

Is the 210 cycled and ready? If not you may want to pick up some Bio spira to give it a boost.

Someone else may want to chime in here but I am not sure if ich can cause skin to peel. If it is peeling keep an eye out for infection. Can you post a pic?

 

[wooden_reefer]

No I don't have a set qt for them when ttm is finished. I was just gong to ttm and prazi pro on 2nd and 4th transfer then aslong as no signs of ich put them in my 210dt. The sand I will throw out once I get all the fish thru ttm out of my 90 gallon. The Rock I already have a buyer for so will pull that out before I put in copper. I can wait and see but I'm not sure he will make it much longer. He's lost all color and almost looks like he has some skin peeling off

You should always have well-cycled medium for use in QT to support all fish for 12 weeks while the DT fallows.

Since you have only three small fish, WC and Amquel/Prime will not be maddening.

Just imagine how desperate your situation would be if you had many large fish.


I always have enough well-cycled medium standing by for QT for all my fish, several months after finishing QT and adding the last addition to DT.

 

[fairladyZ]

Now my clownfish are loosing their color and having the sores pop up now too.. tang is still alive but he's not really swimming and keeps falling over to his side.. The radiant wrasse is the only fish that looks ok and is swimming around.. Clownfish are at the surface which isn't normal....

what can i do? i'm about to just put in cupramine.

 

[fairladyZ]

well i couldn't sit there and watch my fish die so i put cupramine in the tank. Didn't pull out the live rock or anything. Put in the recommended dosage and will go pick up a test kit tomorrow and redo the dosage. Was reading that cupramine is less likely to absorb into the rock and sand so i just put it in to hopefully give these guys a fighting chance. i lost my mandarin in the first tank transfer and not sure what happen there. I think i may just pull the remaining fish out of the first TTM and put them into the 90 gallon with the copper. The drastic turn that has taken on in the 90 gallon with the clownfish now loosing their color and swimming very poorly makes me wonder if this isn't even ich but maybe velvet or brook.

 

[Cujo13]

Sorry to hear about the Mandarin. Hard tell from the pics but I am thinking you correct about it being Velvet or Brook. You are going to need a freshwater dip and formalin to treat. Follow the stickies exactly. I hope it is not to late. Good luck.

 

[fairladyZ]

ya my camera won't really focus in on the fish to well and since i pulled all my rock out to catch those 3 fish the other day then set the rock back in the tank glass is filthy and i don't want to disrupt the tank anymore and stress anyone else out at this point.

reading up on velvet it appears that cupramine should work to take care it. So if it's either ich or velvet by putting the cupramine in hopefully it will kill the parasite. I'm just hoping it's not brook as it seems that is the hardest to treat.

So i put in the first recommended dosage of cupramine and will be getting the test kit tomorrow and doing the second dose. Would it be wise or worth while to do a freshwater dip on the fish that i can catch? or even a dip in paraguard? Or should i just let the copper and nature take it's course and not disrupt anyone to much? Also since i'm already running copper in the 90 gallon should i just cut the TTM off on the other 2 fish left in the 10 gallon tank and put them back in the 90 gallon with the copper to just treat all the fish at once? incase this isn't ich and is velvet then at that point the TTM is worthless right?

 

[fairladyZ]

sorry i only have my phone for a camera and it doesn't like to focus on moving things at all. I got a couple of the clownfish at the surface. She pops her head out of the water every couple seconds.. The discoloration in the white wasn't on her 2 days ago. Thats how fast this has popped up out of nowhere.. although she does seem to be getting her color back since i added the copper into teh tank. Before the copper she was pale and dull almost like the tang is, but when i took these pics it looks like the orange is starting to pop again on her.. Hoping that is a good sign

 

[fairladyZ]

well update..... I lost the tang and both clownfish over night. This is beyond frustrating and not sure what could have happened that took almost the whole tank down so fast. I transfered the 2 fish that were in the first TTM into the 2nd tank. I then drained all of the water out of the 90 and pulled all the rock to find my remaining fish. Was able to find the remaining 2 dartfish and the wrasse and put them into a 20 gallon tank that i had laying around. Used new water. I put in a little tupperware container with brand new sand for the wrasse and so they could feel comfortable.

So now i'm not sure what to do or where to go from here. I don't know what killed them, i don't know what disease they have. I don't know anything at this point. The tang i thought had ich for awhile but he never went down from it. The other fish never showed signs of any ich and the fish that are left don't show any signs of anything.

Please tell me what to do and which direction to go. I have 3 tanks running now with no bilogical filtration and don't know what else to do.

Should i cut TTM short and put all 5 of the remaining fish in the 20 gallon with a couple little pieces of LR from my 210dt? then treat with copper and formalin dips?

 

[Cujo13]

Sorry to hear about this. I have a feeling you may have velvet, looks like ich but can cause tank wipe out. Please read this sticky

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388424

Good Luck.

 

[fairladyZ]

ya i believe so aswell. I've been reading up and it seems that copper will wipe out velvet. So am i correct in thinking that i should pull the fish out of the TTM and put them in the 20 gallon with the 3 other. Then since i don't have any kind of filter or anything on it should i just pull a good rock out of my 210 gallon and put it in there and pretty much just sacrifice the rock for QT purposes? I can always replace the rock as it's caribsea life rock so it has bacteria to start plus it's been running for 5 months almost. Or would it be best to throw my marineland penguin HOB filter and get a new bio wheel for it then get some nitrifying bacteria in a bottle and dump it in? let the tank sit for about a week then start copper?

 

[Cujo13]

If it is Velvet once you see symptoms it may be to late. I have had very good luck with Bio Spira. I do not think you would have to wait a week. Once you dump the bottle in the bacteria will need ammonia to grow. If you treat in the 20 I would keep out as much rock out as possible and use the bio-wheels on the penguin. If it is a 350 with 2 wheels they do a pretty good job of growing aerobic bacteria and oxygenating the tank. The rocks will absorb the copper and make monitoring the copper levels harder. Either way I would start this sooner than later. Keep a close eye on the ammonia levels.

How many fish left?
Can you treat in the 90 once you remove everything except the fish? Much larger.
Remember the tank proximity for aerosols transporting the parasite.

I think the preferred method of treatment is freshwater dips and formalin.

 

[fairladyZ]

I have a penguin 100 i believe.. It's just big enough for the 20 gallon tank... It's what i had it running on for over a year but decided to break it down and now this.. Wish i still had it going this would have been easy.

there are 5 fish left. 3 zebra dartfish, 1 lawnmower blenny, and a radiant wrasse.

I can put the penguin on and go buy a new bio wheel since the other one dried out and is prolly no good. and then pick up some bacteria in a bottle.

I could finish cleaning out the 90 but there is so much in it i'm sure i would need to take a few days to get it completely clean to where i wouldn't have to worry about any velvet living in it. There is about half the sand and the refugium left in the sump to clean. But there is still alot of coraline and algae on the glass and powerheads.

i read about the freshwater dip and formalin but it seems very stressful for me. I can't seem to find an exact way to do it and what not to do. Plus the fish are already in the 20 so if i dip them then put them back they will just get re-infected.

 

[Cujo13]

I have a penguin 100 i believe.. It's just big enough for the 20 gallon tank... It's what i had it running on for over a year but decided to break it down and now this.. Wish i still had it going this would have been easy.

there are 5 fish left. 3 zebra dartfish, 1 lawnmower blenny, and a radiant wrasse.

I can put the penguin on and go buy a new bio wheel since the other one dried out and is prolly no good. and then pick up some bacteria in a bottle.

I could finish cleaning out the 90 but there is so much in it i'm sure i would need to take a few days to get it completely clean to where i wouldn't have to worry about any velvet living in it. There is about half the sand and the refugium left in the sump to clean. But there is still alot of coraline and algae on the glass and powerheads.

i read about the freshwater dip and formalin but it seems very stressful for me. I can't seem to find an exact way to do it and what not to do. Plus the fish are already in the 20 so if i dip them then put them back they will just get re-infected.

I would not buy another wheel, drying out is no different than buying a new one. I would get the 20 going ASAP and get going on the treatment.

If the 90 stays fallow for 6 weeks, 12 weeks for ich, the tank should be cleared of the velvet. I would not sell this rock to anyone until then.

good luck.

 

[fairladyZ]

Ok so i will put the filter on the 20 and get it going... should i leave the filter cartridge out since it has carbon? i would have to buy a new 1 as the 2 i have, 1 has dried out that was in it and the other is still in the sump in the 90 but has been there a very long time.

Which form of treatment would be best? should i move the 2 fish in the TTM tank to the 20 with the other 3? cooper seems logical to me as it should kill whatever parasite the fish has just incase this is ich or brook or something correct?

The 90 gallon will be broken down and sold, i will not refill that tank unless instructed otherwise from someone that thinks i should to help my fish.

 

[Cujo13]

Follow the instructions but I would not run carbon. For ich TTM is the best but i am not sure you have that.

 

[fairladyZ]

ya im not sure i have that either. thats why i'm thinking to just run copper in the 20 gallon with all the fish in there to knock out whatever it is that is going on with them.

Copper with kill ich, velvet and brook right? run copper for 4 weeks then pull copper out and do 2 rounds of prazi? that sound ok?

I got some bio-sprira and i got my penguin on the 20 gallon and running with just the bio-wheel and no carbon or filter cartridge. I'm going to take the 2 fish out of the TTM tank and put them in the 20 gallon with the other 3

 

[fairladyZ]

i can't decide what to do.. I need someone to steer me right! snorvich or anyone? i still haven't changed anything yet but don't sure which route to go! and still don't even know what i have!