TANK CRASHING? High Ammonia! Sick Fish? Help!

[lakee911]

About half a week ago, I added some sand to my refugium. Even though it said minimal rinsing required, I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed. Since then my Ammonia levels have gone up!
I added Ammo Lock at 0.25 and now it is at 0.5. My system has 120Gal in it (tank+sump+fuge-stuf finside) and I added 60mL of Ammo Lock. It states to use 5mL/10Gal and it will convert up to 3.00ppm Ammonia into a non toxic form. It says it will still bel detectable on test kits but it will be removed by the biological filtering. My Nitrites are 0 (shouldn't these go up some converting the Ammonia?) and Nitrates are around 80. (Added DSB to Fuge to help bring those down.) About two weeks ago I had a Skunk Cleaner shrimp disappear (), but I figured Ammonia would have spiked sooner this if that was the cause. Not sure where he went.
Day before yesterday I've had one of my two Blue-Green Chromis start hanging out in the corner. He will put his belly almost right up to the silcone, head up, tail down. Occasionally he'll kind of spaz out. Sometimes he'll swim away, other times not. When he is scared he'll start shaking/convulsing/spazzing out and try to go hide in the rocks. He won't eat much. Never seen him act this way. His little friend seems ok and tries to follow him around--he eats fine though. At first I attributed this to stress--now I don't know.
Today I noticed my Flagfin Angel has kind of one puffy cloudy eye (left). It looks like a cataract to tell the truth. I didn't notice it this morning, though the girlfriend reported it this afternoon. I've tried for more than hour to get a good clean photo. I ended up taking a video and I'll try to post it here if I can.
Also noticed that my Flagfin and Moorish Idol are getting cleaned by my Skunk Cleaner Shrimp more often than they used to. Seems to be every 5 min or so. I don't see any parasites or anything on them.
What do I do? I've been changing as much water as I can squeeze out of my RO unit.
Please help!

Thank you,
Jason

 

[bigevill1]

how long has the tank been up? what is in the tank in total? have you added anything other then the sand to the tank recently? whats the PH, are nitrites high too?

 

[lakee911]

 

[aurorafish]

Angel and moorish idol in a new tank, you should find somebody to keep them or give them back to the store that sold them to you, those are not beginner fish. Keep doing water changes and definately do not add any more fish. Post your water test readings, and do not use any potions like amo-lock. Never put anything in your tank that you cannot test for.

 

[lakee911]

FOWLR, Two blue-green Chromis (2 to 3in), one flagfin (4in), one moorish idol (4in), two skunk cleaner shrimp, one yellow watchman goby (2.5-3in), many turbo snails, emerald crab and many blue (?) hermit crabs.
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrites 0.0ppm
Nitrates: 80 (seems to fluctuate between 80 and 120, but its way down from 300+ about a month ago)
pH: 8.1 - 8.2
Salinity: 1.0215
Temp: 78-79

Two weeks ago, added the sump (DIY) and fuge and mangrove plants. I removed the Eheim 2215. Just on Saturday I added the sand.

Tank was setup since Feb 05 and moved to its current location in early December and been trouble free except for the high nitrates which I'm trying to get down.

 

[lakee911]

I didn't have a choice in picking these fish as they came with the tank which I purchased used. A lot of people suggested these are two difficult fish, but had I not taken them, the owner was going to fly them to Phoenix and didn't really want to risk the move.

 

[NCreefwannabe]

Have you been doing water changes to get those nitrates down??? If not i think its time lol. No need to do small changes, just do 12% changes when you do it. And how long has the tank been going?

 

[aurorafish]

Now that you posted more its not so bad. Water changes will help. Those nitrates are coming from somewhere, do you have algae problems? What kind of water are you using RO/DI? Tap?

 

[lakee911]

Though a fuzzy picture, here you can see again the left eye is cloudy. What is this? Stress? Popeye? Fungus?

Thanks for the advice
Jason

 

[lakee911]

For the first three weeks (mostly December), I used tap water which had 20ppm Nitrate and 0.5ppm Phosphate. I used this with Stress Coat to remove the Chlorine from the water. Previous owner said he used tap water too and recommended the procedure.

I'm now using my own RO water which has tested clean for everything. Even checked phosphate and its zero. Checked it with my Salt (Instant Ocean) and it's good. Last time I had Phosphate at the LFS checked, it was <0.1. (<2 weeks ago)

I'm not getting much algae. I need to clean the glass once a week or so or it gets small brownish green streaks (assuming algae).


Thx
Jason

 

[lakee911]

I have been doing small water changes which now that you mention it, would slow down the removal. I will start doing larger changes, but where did you arrive at the 12%? Thx

 

[crpeck]

aurorafish, please don't be so quick to attack him. He's asking for help and when you posted we didn't know how long the tank had been set up. It's been up for almost a year and he sounds pretty responsible and on top of it to me. He's in a stressful situation with his tank in danger and it's not the time to criticize him for his fish. Sorry ... let's just be helpful here.

He tested for ammonia and that's why he used the Ammo Lock. It's not ideal to have to use it and not a solution, but can be a lifesaver in a pinch until the underlying problem is figured out.

lakee911, somethings got to be rotting somewhere to spike your ammonia. How's your snail count? Do you have those big Mexican Turbos?

Since we don't know what the problem is yet, don't know if this would even help but when in doubt I always put carbon and a polyfilter in when things are looking bad while I work on the solution.

How much sand did you add? What kind was it? I've never had mangroves .... are they capable of introducing parasites? I don't know ... just reaching here for any ideas.

The chromis' behavior sounds like it could be ammonia related.

Sorry .... not much help, but first hand there's not an obvious (to me) answer.

Bigevill? You've been doing this longer ... any ideas?

 

[crpeck]

Sorry aurorafish ... I see you already posted nice while I was typing

 

[xroads]

I'm impressed the moorish has lived over a year. good job! I agree with larger water changes.

 

[aurorafish]

I would try a 20-25 gallon water change with your ro/di water then do another of the same in 3-4 weeks. If you are overfeeding would be careful about amout of food input(nutrients in food). Check your tank for areas of stagnation if evident add flow(powerheads). Its probably a combo of tap water and nutrients in the sand thats causing the spike. If algae starts to show up soon try cutting back on the lighting period a bit.

I am not out there to blast anybody, hopefully thats evident, I have a biochemistry degree and have keep reeftanks for the last 20 years, I am still afraid to take on a Moorish Idol. Sorry if my first post came across offensive.

 

[aurorafish]

The eye problem is hard to tell in the pictures, most likely popeye from stress (amonia). Since hes been in the tank awhile , I would leave him be and see how it goes many times fish will cure themselves, if still there in a few weeks consider quaranteen and then medication, but by netting him you will be causing more stress.

 

[crpeck]

I agree with aurorafish on the eye. Cloudy eye is usually a manifestation of underlying stress or infection, but can be as simple as he injured it. It he's otherwise healthy and eating, just watch him. When you get your water problems cleaned up he'll probably heal himself.

Sorry I over-reacted aurorafish ... it sounded like you were jumping on him but I can see you meant well and have a lot of experience.

 

[lakee911]

I understand where you're coming from AuroraFish. I hope to get there one day (reef tank and 20+ years experience) but I'm doing my best and trying not to know it all--like crppeck said just asking for help. No offense taken.

I've got a power head in the tank and 5 outlets on my "manifold" (loops around the tank 3/4" PVC return from sump) so I think I'm getting enough circulation. More would be better, but since I've got a small microbubble problem I can see the "flow" and have the valve shut slightly.

I'm going to try to change as much water tonight as I can make, mix and heat. Making might limit the amount though. (Eventually I'd like to get 55Gal food grade barrel to keep enough water on hand for an emergency.)

I never did have a good snail count and they blend in so well. I've noticed a few extra shells but I assumed they were hermit crabs since they've taken the carribean shells we added in Dec (we boiled them first..shells not crabs). Like I said a shrimp is missing, but I've been all over the tank and not found him anywhere. Used a flashlight to peer into holes and underneith ledges.

I need to check to see what kind of sand it was...don't have te packaging handy. I added to an area 9"x12" x 4" deep.

So, what about the fish? Think they're going to be ok?

I don't think mangroves could contain parasites, but anything is possible. They'd been shipped damp all the way from Hawaii for 3 or 4 days. They got a good cleaning and I even threw out some that were questionable. They grow slow so not sure if they're growing but they're not dying. They should help clean the water.

At what level is Ammonia toxic? Shouldn't my Nitrites be going up as well?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[lakee911]

Ok. I see the fish posts. I assumed stress but not sure. I hope he clears up. *cross fingers* Thanks. I'll keep you guys updates. Hopefully the other Chromie will be ok too. He seems better after adding the Ammo Lock the other day, so as long as he eats I'll be happy.

Thx!
Jason

 

[crpeck]

.5 mg/L is considered toxic and will definitely stress your fish if it lasts.

It just seems really weird that your ammonia can be THAT high in a 120 with as much as you're doing water changes.

Are you sure your test kit is okay?