Tank devastated by paly toxins (and my stupidity)
- Thread starter scolley
- Start date
Thanks all for the kind support. I figured I'd follow up with a little additional info...
My previously nice hammer and frogspawn have nearly died. Not quite, but it clearly put them on a near death spiral. Everything else has recovered well - especially the acans tha survived the original insult.
Two 90-95% water changes (10 days or so apart) seems to have put the reef chemistry back in place. The real PITA is that the d*mn paly IS NOT GONE!
Aparently small bit of it have floated around the aquarium, and have been popping up - polyp by polyp - all over the place. However I've been quite successful at killing it one polyp at a time. Joe's Juice takes them out completely, with no aparently adverse effects to the tank.
Too bad I had not at least tried a "polyp a day" method originally. Live and learn. But take note... If you've got a paly problem, this seems to be a working method - even with particularly nasty polyps.
Getting dosing levels set to the proper amounts, since almost all my SPS were destroyed has been a pita. But thats to be expected.
The rebuild is in full swing. Looking forward to the results!
Thanks you!
PS - as I'm sure you know, I'm committed to the fact that the community learns from our well documented success AND failures. If it's helped you, then please spread the practice.
My previously nice hammer and frogspawn have nearly died. Not quite, but it clearly put them on a near death spiral. Everything else has recovered well - especially the acans tha survived the original insult.
Two 90-95% water changes (10 days or so apart) seems to have put the reef chemistry back in place. The real PITA is that the d*mn paly IS NOT GONE!
Aparently small bit of it have floated around the aquarium, and have been popping up - polyp by polyp - all over the place. However I've been quite successful at killing it one polyp at a time. Joe's Juice takes them out completely, with no aparently adverse effects to the tank.
Too bad I had not at least tried a "polyp a day" method originally. Live and learn. But take note... If you've got a paly problem, this seems to be a working method - even with particularly nasty polyps.
Getting dosing levels set to the proper amounts, since almost all my SPS were destroyed has been a pita. But thats to be expected.
The rebuild is in full swing. Looking forward to the results!
thanks for the kind words! Sometimes the detail and passion I thrown into documenting the journey gets frustrating. But believe me, every once in a while you find out someone is actually getting benefit from the effort, and it truely makes it all worthwhile. It's all about payback to the community that nurtures our hobby.
Thanks you!
PS - as I'm sure you know, I'm committed to the fact that the community learns from our well documented success AND failures. If it's helped you, then please spread the practice.
Is it a good idea to be doing 95% water changes? I read somewhere that you want to do no more than 50% max. I would think that there's a lot of biological life in the water column and such a massive change would make things worse? I'm also trying to learn from this thread so hopefully my questions don't sound offensive.
Not at all. I'm no expert, but I believe most if the biological content in our water (if you use a skimmer - and I do) is generally a a low enough level that is easily replaced through the replication of whatever is left in that 5-10% original water.
A far larger concern i believe is the temp, pH, and KH (alk) levels of the old vs. new water, and to a lesser extent Mg and Ca levels.
But let's assume I'm wrong... For the 1st water change - where toxins in the water were killing corals - I suspect a massive change would do less harm than multiple, smaller changes, particularly when my changed water had dramatically similar temp, pH, and KH.
Though that does leave open the question if my second, large change would have been better to be multiple smaller ones. For the reasons I previously stated, I suspect it does not matter that much. But if someone KNOWS otherwise - and can provide the reasons - it would be a great learning experience.
A far larger concern i believe is the temp, pH, and KH (alk) levels of the old vs. new water, and to a lesser extent Mg and Ca levels.
But let's assume I'm wrong... For the 1st water change - where toxins in the water were killing corals - I suspect a massive change would do less harm than multiple, smaller changes, particularly when my changed water had dramatically similar temp, pH, and KH.
Though that does leave open the question if my second, large change would have been better to be multiple smaller ones. For the reasons I previously stated, I suspect it does not matter that much. But if someone KNOWS otherwise - and can provide the reasons - it would be a great learning experience.
Scolley, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm curious if you personally felt any symptoms after or between the large water changes?
Recently, while on a business trip i had a small die off of a few zoas. now every time i put my hand in the tank i quickly begin to feel 'off' for about a day (headaches, upset stomach, groggyness). i have been doing ~30% changes weekly since the die off. i have ordered the arm-length gloves for future maintenance, but ultimately want the water cleaned up. i may have to do the larger changes for a few weeks.
The funny thing with me, is nothing else in the tank has suffered. Only me
Recently, while on a business trip i had a small die off of a few zoas. now every time i put my hand in the tank i quickly begin to feel 'off' for about a day (headaches, upset stomach, groggyness). i have been doing ~30% changes weekly since the die off. i have ordered the arm-length gloves for future maintenance, but ultimately want the water cleaned up. i may have to do the larger changes for a few weeks.
The funny thing with me, is nothing else in the tank has suffered. Only me
I can't help you I'm afraid, because I did not (and do not) put my hands in the tank unprotected. Normally I wear long rubberized gloves to do any work in my tank. In fact, the night of the paly incident I had on a pair of those aweful thick rubber gloves with that cover up to your shoulder. I was taking no chances with the paly juice. I was even wearing eye protection. Too back I wasn't as careful with my tank.
That said, as I understand it your symptoms are not consistent with symptoms of poisoning from palys. I was told by an LFS owner (that frags a LOT) that the symptoms include numbness in the lips and a metallic taste in your mouth - like sucking on nickles as I recall him saying.
I've experienced the lip numbing thing once myself when fragging zoas, so I know that's true. As I understand it, when you get either of those symptoms it's time to stop and wash up.
Not sure what you are experiencing... it's possible that it's a reaction to something other than dead zoas, like something bacterial. But that's pure conjecture on my part. Good luck.
Steve, thanks for the reply. I did have that metal taste, along with the other symptoms.
I certainly do need to be more careful with protection when working on the tank. Gloves are a new 'must'. Funny how easy it is to get comfortable and careless. Hopefully a few big waterchanges will get whatever it is out. Thanks again!
I certainly do need to be more careful with protection when working on the tank. Gloves are a new 'must'. Funny how easy it is to get comfortable and careless. Hopefully a few big waterchanges will get whatever it is out. Thanks again!
Real sorry Scolley, I can imagine how much hard work you had in your tank, hopefully you will come back better than ever.
Since I am a newb, and you posted this in the beginner section, I would like to ask you, or anyone else reading this post a couple questions please.
I have read posts for many years now, and this is the first time I have read that paly's can do this, or touching a monti on the bottom can cause problems. Can you give me some more examples of what not to touch or other coral specific problems that I should avoid. I see people in my lfs touching frags and colonies all the time with no gloves, how can you frag corals if they release these toxins without causing massive damage? Is this paly specific?
I have read to use the gloves, but have never heard of the more severe reactions that some people have had in this post. Is there anything other than washing your hands from accidental contact that may help, like benodryl?
I think this is information that is very important but not covered much, like I said I read forums all the time but this topic just does not seem come up that often. I feel it's something EVERY newb should know, we can all learn about lights, pumps and skimmers, but this type of information seems more crutial to me.
Thanks for the help, good luck getting back on track.
Since I am a newb, and you posted this in the beginner section, I would like to ask you, or anyone else reading this post a couple questions please.
I have read posts for many years now, and this is the first time I have read that paly's can do this, or touching a monti on the bottom can cause problems. Can you give me some more examples of what not to touch or other coral specific problems that I should avoid. I see people in my lfs touching frags and colonies all the time with no gloves, how can you frag corals if they release these toxins without causing massive damage? Is this paly specific?
I have read to use the gloves, but have never heard of the more severe reactions that some people have had in this post. Is there anything other than washing your hands from accidental contact that may help, like benodryl?
I think this is information that is very important but not covered much, like I said I read forums all the time but this topic just does not seem come up that often. I feel it's something EVERY newb should know, we can all learn about lights, pumps and skimmers, but this type of information seems more crutial to me.
Thanks for the help, good luck getting back on track.
rogermccray
Active member
Sorry to hear about your tank, but I am glad you posted about it. I am very new to SW tank and I will remember your story so as not to repeat it... (which is exactly why you did it) Thank you.
Honestly I think that's a GREAT question! Really.
IMO you should start a thread in this forum, and call it something like "What should I not touch in a reef tank?"
You'd get a lot of great information, and probably some pretty funny stuff too. Would be a great thread.
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Sport507
~Just a Farm Boy~
Honestly I think that's a GREAT question! Really.
IMO you should start a thread in this forum, and call it something like "What should I not touch in a reef tank?"
You'd get a lot of great information, and probably some pretty funny stuff too. Would be a great thread.
Why don't you start it?
bartmalave
New member
when i get rid of something in my tank and its large on a single rock i sell it, give it to someone who wants it, or i nuke the rock. NUKE.....i scrap the rock then i boil it in the microwave to kill every thing. then i put it in a bucket with pump to clean anything left for a few days, then introduce back to tank. one month rock back to all its colerful glory
Really? In one month? I'd have thought that would completely kill the coraline such that it would be like starting over with a fresh, dry rock.
But you are saying scrape, microwave, rinse, and return to tank gives you a colored up rock in 1 month? Please confirm, because that sounds too good to be true!
I agree wholeheartedly!
This was my first reef tank, and while it was ok, there were some things about it that I was not overly entheuastic about. Now I'm starting a new tank from the bits of the original that I want to retain. And with a little experience under my belt, I'd like to hope this next tank will only be better. Hopefully much better.
EllieSuz
Premium Member
You just might have saved me a similar fate. I have two large sections of green palys that I intended to remove the same way you did. Now, I think I'll take the rocks they're on and turn them in to the LFS for some bare rocks. I'm not sure if I had this kind of die-out, whether I'd have the heart to start over again. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience.
You are quite welcome Eileen. Disasters avoided makes is worth the effort of sharing. Thanks for letting me know. We'll never know if the same would have happened to you, but I'm right with you in the "better safe than sorry" camp!
Good luck with the new rock.
Good luck with the new rock.
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PoeticInjustice
Member
Wow, that sucks man. Sorry for your loss. Good luck on your re-build.
gmate
MASC Member
Unfortunately Steve, I just did the same darn thing to my tank. Nuked pretty much every nice coral I had in attempt to save a rock from encroaching paly's.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2333650
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2333650
Sorry to hear that my friend! Seems to be a reasonable mistake, but in the case of some palys, a deadly one.
I'm glad YOU did not suffer any toxic affects. And from experience I can say, it hurts when it happens. But a rebuild is just a chance to redo the tank EVEN BETTER. :thumbsup:
Thanks for posting this. The more people see this, the less often it will happen to our fellow reefers.
SpartaReef
New member
Thanks for the info
