Tank health decline, need advice.

[dmits41]

For a while, I've noticed issues with my tank and tried to work on them, but it's just getting worse. I really could use some help before the tank really starts going downhill. It's a 55gal. reef, 17 sump with an Octo 110 recirc. on it. Some things have always looked great, like zoas, LPS, my rose anemone, monti caps, and fish, but others are struggling. I don't get much growth out of SPS, regardless of the 2x250w 10K MH on there. My acros, monti digis, and other branching SPS (really everything beside my scroll coral, monti caps, and encrusting montis) have almost zero polyp extension and now one of my acros is fading. It always has been a little, but I just noticed that it's blue tips are gone. I have a crazy bad hair algae problem, which I had attributed to overfeeding homemade frozen cubes. I have since switched over to spectrum pellet, being VERY careful to only feed what the fish will eat in a few minutes, and in small amounts at that. Still, however, my hair algae is going crazy. I know my TDS reads anywhere between 10-15 on the RO/DI, but I didn't think that was bad enough to cause this. I want to replace the membrane and cartridges next time I can afford to. My nitrates are at zero, always have been. I am going to get pretty aggressive with the w/c schedule, but beyond that I could really use some pointers. Here are the latest test results from the kits I have:

Calcium (ELOS kit): 520! I never dose any calcium either! It just keeps climbing!
Alk (Salifert): 8.8 dKh. This used to be as low as the high 5's, but I've been dosing to raise it.
Ph (Salwater Master Test Kit): 7.8, too low, I need suggestions to what effect this has and how to get it back up.
Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate: all 0. Crazy considering the piles of hair algae that I sometimes pull out of that thing.
SG is 1.025
Temp has some swings, from high 70's to low 80's, I have read that low 80's is nothing to worry about, but I am going to get a new heater to reduce the swings and keep it around 81-82. My other option is a chiller, which isn't happening with my budget.

The morning sun hits parts of the tank pretty hard, is this enough to cause hair algae? It still doesn't explain my SPS lack of polyp extension. One other item of note is that my 5 gal. HOB fuge just sprung a leak, so I moved the sand and rock into my sump. Hopefully nothing from that sand bed was released that is harmful. I don't think so, since this has been a slow progression since before the leak.

OK, there it is...my tank in a nutshell. Any help?

 

[SirToppemHat]

My suggestions would be to Make sure your Alk, Calc, & Mag are in balance and are maintained by either dosing or calc reactor.

 

[drstupid]

i'm going through another hair algae bloom now, due to lack of attention to water changes. red legged hermits did eat it in the past, i'm sort of trying to wait it out with manual removal and water changes.

you can't go wrong with a series of reasonable (no more than say 20% at a time) water changes and manual removal, that would be a sensible place to start.

also, how old are your bulbs? i only get hair algae when my MHs are getting near the end of their useful life, that could be a coincidence with my lack of attention to other maintenance tasks (like water changes). when i change a small amount weekly and have fresh bulbs, hair algae has not been an issue for me. again, that could be coincidental.

 

[Jorober]

Well I would say that like most algae, they grow rapidly when your phosphates are high. I would guess that this is your problem. A lot of home made foods, especially those containing squid, have a ton of phosphates in them. I would check it, preferably with a hanna tester at a LFS, and get it in line. For your pH problem, I would buffer it up with Seachem reef buffer, or AquaVitro 8.4. Both are good products. I personally like the Seachem. Phosphates also can have a huge impact on coral growth, and eventually death. Phosphates in the wild are very low, so you should strive to keep yours below 0.03. If you want, you can add a foxface to your tank to eat the algae. I wouldn't recommend emerald crabs because they are bulldozers. They're opportunistic eaters, and will eat whatever they come across.

 

[sedor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433784#post15433784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SirToppemHat
My suggestions would be to Make sure your Alk, Calc, & Mag are in balance and are maintained by either dosing or calc reactor.

I'm going to agree with SirToppemHat. My guess is that your parameters are constantly changing. The key to keeping SPS is stability, you want everything to say the same 24/7. Try testing your Ca, Alk, and Mg every night at the exact same time, this should give you an idea on what you need to dose and everything should level out.

 

[Tadashi]

While the TDS is within tolerance it is at the upper level. They may need to be changed out. You should change your sediment out every 6 mo, carbon about every 12 mo, RO and DI every 18 mo. I even put an additional sediment to make my RO and DI last longer. One was 5 micron and the other was 1 micron.

How old are your bulbs? You should be changing those out every 6 - 12 mo. Worse case 18 mo.

Hair algae would mean you have a nutrient problem. Either over feeding, something dying, under skimming or other filtration.

Never defrost the food in the tank or dump the defrosted mixture in the tank. Adds too much food that will not be eaten. If you had marinated it in Selcon I would strain it in a brine shrimp net before target feeding with a turkey baster to ensure the corals get it.

How often do you do water changes? Some people say you can go without, but for some tanks it puts them on the razors edge with very little wiggle room. If you do not do WC then you need to dose with the various minerals and you need to use stronger filtration. Water changes should help keep the ph in check if using RO/DI water.

Stability, stability, stability!!! That is another key to successful reef keeping. The live stock cannot handle 10 deg temp swings like you and I. You need to keep it at a min of 78, 82 preferably, 84 would be better (although some would argue this is too high). I follow Dr. Shimek's advice and keep mine at 84.

This includes salinity. Ensure you keep it at 1.024. If you have lots of evap you will need an atuo-top off system. So if can be swinging up and down.

You may want to measure all water parameters every 30-60 min during a 24 hr period.

Ensure you have adequate circulation. SPS need a high turnover rate. I think mine was at around 24x for my SPS tank.

Sun does not cause hair algae, nutrients do. You need to tackle this first. I thought I read most SPS prefer low nutrient waters whereas some LPS require high nutrient waters. Look at their natural habitat. If deep reef then low nutrient, if in the rubble zone (ie some LPS) then high nutrient.

Depending on how deep the sandbed was in the HOB you might but I doubt it. You would see changes in your 3 toxins.

If you have no money for a chiller you can use a fan to create evap. I was able to keep 4 400W MH and 2 VHO 100W bulbs over a 4' 180-gal only using evap, but I went through about 60-gal a week (x5 because it was RO/DI). If you do this you will need an auto-top off system. I had several over time. One was a float valve drilled into my sump. Worked well. If you cannot do that I also had a tube sensor hooked up to my RO/DI (by spectrapure), best to have a storage tank to avoid your RO/DI kicking on and off all the time. If your do not want to alter your RO/DI then get an AT-1 Tsunami. It is a tube pressure sensor but you plug a powerhead into it. I had a 12-gal tub next to the tank.

If your calc is very high I would not use a kalk reactor. Especially if you do not have the money for a chiller. For a good calc reactor you will have to buy the reactor, calc media, pump, CO2 tank, Co2 guage, etc. It adds up quickly. I think mine was upwards to $200 for my setup. Some people make kalkwasser and drip it in using an IV drip.

Something you also did not mention was your clean up crew, how much LR, do you have LS is it a DSB? If so how deep?

What kind of filtration do you have? Skimmer? wet/dry?

Hope this helps start you off. I was not sure about your knowledge level so tried to mention everything. Sorry if you already knew about a lot of this.

 

[dmits41]

Ok, lots of stuff to get to, may miss some of it. I've actually been in the hobby for about 6 years now, but only doing SPS since getting this tank about a year ago. I've never really buckled down and done things right until attempting to with this tank, and obviously there are still some growing pains.

Jrober, it says that foxfaces aren't always reef safe and liveaquaria.com says it should be in a 70 or bigger. Mine is a 55 so I don't know if that would work.

I just got my RO/DI system used at our local frag swap this spring, it's been running consistently at about 12 ppm since. The bulbs I got used in December, the guy said they were a month old and they looked practically new out of the package. I am trying to get better with the water changes, but I do them once or twice a month as is. They are 5 gal. on a 55 gal tank with lots of rock. I think I'll get a good heater to keep my tank in the low 80's without the swings. My system did just get a large upgrade in filtration, as I went from a HOB remora pro that didn't take out what I like to an octopus 110 recirculating skimmer with a 17 gal. sump. I'm still getting it dialed in, but it's done a great job so far. I have a 4 or so inch DSB, and my cleaning crew consists of about 50 hermits (the ones that aren't redlegs or bluelegs, premium aquatics raves about them), 10-20 nassarius snails, a few turbos, a fighting conch, 2 brittle stars, a cleaner shrimp, and several hitchhikerws. I am not sure how to do the ATO system, especially with the RO mounted over in the laundry room and no space under the tank to store any more water. I have also suspected phosphates, and thought about getting a phosban reactor or something to fight it. I haven't used the homemade frozen food in a couple months now, but maybe I haven't done enough water changes to make a difference with the new food. I've been doing manual removal as well. To be honest, the hair algae is annoying, but not nearly as much as the loss of color and lack of polyp extension in SPS. I'm also surprised that my calcium isn't dropping even though I don't dose anything. I think I got everything. I'll add more if I think of anything.

 

[dmits41]

New discovery: water change water tested at Ca 520, Alk 11.2 dKh. Seachem reef salt.

 

[Tadashi]

How far away is your tank from the RO/DI unit? I had mine about 30 feet and ran the compression tubing line from my reservior tank to the sump and used the three ATO systems I explained (AT-1 Tsunami, Spectrapure ATO sensor, and float valve). If it is too far then use a rubbermaid bin with a powerhead hooked up to an AT-1 Tsunami. Basically, the pressure sensor detects the drop in the water level and turns on the powerhead to pump the water from the rubbermaid bin to the sump.

I just kept the rubbermaid bin next to the tank and put a table cloth over it to keep it from looking too bad.

In the past I have used a sally lightfoot crab to get hair algae. My yellow tang would also eat it (however, not all Tangs will). Live aquaria says their star astrea snails will eat it.

What is your circulation (how many GPH)? How do you have it setup? Most SPS like high flow, but alternating not a steady wind tunnel.

Try sandbed clams (Indo Pacfic Sea Farms sell mini ones) if your water is high in nutrients they may help clear your water up. I am not sure if the scallops or tridacna clams will like high nutrient waters, all my books are at work. However, they do not do well with temp, salinity and other water parameter flucuations.

 

[spamreefnew]

3 full days with no light what-so ever will kill off your hair and not harm corals,,,but it will come right back if you dont find the source of it

 

[drstupid]

i can't imagine your calcium and alk tested both that high... i'd recommend new test kits, repeated testing, or borrow kits from a friend who's recently tested their parameters and trust the readings. hobbyist test kits go bad, and are not terribly accurate. i would not trust your readings.

if they are both that high accidentally, and you haven't been dosing like crazy and testing carefully to keep them there, you are walking a tightrope. i'd consider those readings close to a snowstorm event if you aren't carefully dosing and testing. overdosing any alk or calcium more could push you over the brink.

i try to keep calcium above 400 and alk around 10, those are my ideal numbers and that takes water changes, kalkwasser in the top off, and a calcium reactor kept in tune to keep things at those levels, with occasional alk supplementation when that goes out of whack.

there are many opinions about the optimal levels but keeping them both cranked like that is not really what i'd consider normal for a casual hobbyist.

 

[Toddrtrex]

IMO, the temp swings are fine. All three of my tanks go from 78-83 each day, and have been like that for years. I feel that stable temps -- 80 steady -- cause more issues.

As for your RO/DI waster, a TDS reading of 10-15 is pretty darn high, and that might be the root cause of your algae issues. Carbon and Prefliters should be changed every 6 months. The RO membrane (( if you change the carbon and pre regularly )) should last about 3 years, but that really depends on your starting TDS. The DI resin should be changed anytime it gets above 2. Can say for certain that your DI resin needs to be changed. Can't say about your RO membrane, but that isn't that hard to figure out. Measure your starting TDS, and then measure the TDS of the RO ONLY water. Then divide the two numbers to figure out if the RO membrane is operating within its rated rejection rate.

An example, if you have a RO membrane that is rated for 96-98% rejection. If your taps TDS is 100, and the post RO TDS is above 7-10 it would be time to order a new membrane.

 

[dmits41]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15446751#post15446751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drstupid
i can't imagine your calcium and alk tested both that high... i'd recommend new test kits, repeated testing, or borrow kits from a friend who's recently tested their parameters and trust the readings. hobbyist test kits go bad, and are not terribly accurate. i would not trust your readings.

if they are both that high accidentally, and you haven't been dosing like crazy and testing carefully to keep them there, you are walking a tightrope. i'd consider those readings close to a snowstorm event if you aren't carefully dosing and testing. overdosing any alk or calcium more could push you over the brink.

i try to keep calcium above 400 and alk around 10, those are my ideal numbers and that takes water changes, kalkwasser in the top off, and a calcium reactor kept in tune to keep things at those levels, with occasional alk supplementation when that goes out of whack.

there are many opinions about the optimal levels but keeping them both cranked like that is not really what i'd consider normal for a casual hobbyist.

I used to dose with kalk, but I'm not doing anything right now. I don't have any reason to distrust the test kits, the numbers seem to be in line with what has been going on. The Ca test kit results have been going up and up since I started using this Seachem reef salt, and the Alk kit has been going up since I started dosing it. A while back my Ca was over 400 but the Alk was super low, like in the 5-6 dKh range. I was thinking that by having a low Alk, my Ca wasn't being used for growth, and that bringing the Alk back into balance would make the tank consume more Ca. I was shocked to see the water change bucket test at 520 Ca though. I may run a bit of water to the LFS to see what their results look like. Hopefully they don't use quick dips or similar cheap kits. I'm beginning to wonder if it's partially my light bulbs. I got a couple used here on RC in December that supposedly were a month old, but maybe they weren't. Maybe my corals aren't using the light in it's current spectrum but the algae is. I noticed that part of my Superman monti is fading, but the area not in direct light is still a strong blue color. Maybe I should get some brand new 14k bulbs rather than these XM 10k's once I can afford to. I think phosphate may also be contributing, and maybe if I get a phosban reactor the tank will perk up as well. I'm still baffled about the lack of polyp extension. Maybe changing all of these things will help that too.