Tell me about Telephoto

toothybugs

toothybugs

New member
Folks, I'm in the market for a better telephoto. I took a trip to northern MN and found I couldn't take good shots of anything much over 30 yards away, max. So I started looking at longer lenses. I've been looking around but frankly, what I've found so far just hasn't completely blown me away. The Denali shots did. Blew away my lady too, so I have the go-ahead to get a new lens so long as it's reasonable.

This past weekend I scoped out (see what I did there?) a couple 55-250 and 70-300 lenses and now I find I'm torn. I thought a 300 would be more than adequate for wildlife shooting at probably 200-300 yards but the 70-300's performance in the store didn't impress me shooting across the parking lot. Further, I'm having a hard time finding someone who can tell me what an appropriate lens would be for getting, say, a loon or bald eagle to fill at least half the frame at maybe 200-300 yards. Going over 300mm gets really pricey really quick.

Suggestions, thoughts on the matter? I shoot a Canon system, if it matters. I'd really like our wildlife photographers to chime in here if they could.

Thanks folks
NG
 
I hear your not being blown away by 300mm lenses. My budget constrained solution was to go with the 400mm f5.6L and 1.4x III extender. Gives me the equivalent of 560mm. With a crop sensor body 896mm (560x1.6). While I lose autofocus with the extender on the 400mm (true for that lens but not all), that's a tradeoff I am willing to make. Plus I got the extender almost free after rebates from other lens purchases. :D
 
toothybugs said:
Darn "new guy" syndrome - I just found this (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=639083) and found out I'm probably never going to get 200-300 yards out of a lens without striking the lotto :) Ah, ignorance. It's great.

That said, I'm still interested in what are our wildlife photographers shooting with!
Click to expand...

Forget Birds, they're tiny. if that's your subject you better apply for a loan because you need some monster glass.

Honestly I have worked with my 300F4 and a 1.4 Tele for probably almost 10 years or more. (here is my old site - I only had the 300F4 and 1.4 tele: http://greene-art.com/thumbnail_pages/wildlife.html same as I did for this Denali trip. Yeah, I need to crop images sometimes but that was okay. Unless your making huge prints it doesn't matter.

I assume you're shooting Canon. The 300F4 with a crop body and Tele is quite good. All the Denali images were taken with that. I've just been at this a very long time and had a good year (financially) so am looking to up my game to the 500 F4.

My issue with the 400 F5.6 is the light. Yeah, today's cameras ISO is so good it might not matter but often wildlife is in the shadows or dusk dawn. I'd rather get a sharp image I need to crop than full frame animal that's blurry because I didn't have the speed.

That's my two cents. I'm come up to AK.
I'll have more once other people comment. Let me know when you
 
Oh, and the images in the link to the galleries were all taken with that combo including the little critters and birds. Some of it might have even been taken with a wider angle like the 70-200.
 
My thoughts. Taking a pic of even a moose at 300 yards ain't gonna happen. You need to be a little more realistic. Even at 100 yards, with a 300mm lens, a moose in the middle of a field will get you a field with very little moose. There's one thing that can change everything though. Stealth. Work on how you dress. Wear clothing that blends in. Go out shooting alone or with one other person. Be very quiet. Move slowly. The closer you get, the less length you need out of a lens. Then crop the hell out of the pic!!!!!
 
IPT said:
Forget Birds, they're tiny. if that's your subject you better apply for a loan because you need some monster glass.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily :) A motivated individual can create a "set" and attract subjects to the stage. :thumbsup: These were shot with my 105mm f2.8 Macro lens.







 
If I shot a moose with a 300 anything, it would probably say Leupold or Winchester on the side of it! ;)

Yea, shooting Canon. Thanks for the info, it's a lot easier selling the wife on a new reasonably-affordable lens than a 400mm L class. And the only birds I shoot are turkey vultures, eagles, loons, etc - bigger stuff, usually no more than 50-100 yards away. With the 200-300 yard comment I was thinking worst case scenario like across a small bay or something. I'd be okay shooting birds at a feeder but not wild otherwise. My interest just isn't there for that.

However, if the 100-400 is really that much better.... I know lenses are a great investment, and I'm certain I'll be replacing my t5i body with something better to handle my new love for nighttime shooting.
 
Jaybrid - stunning. That's shooting from a blind with a set up/feeding area, yes? Case in point as Jesse suggested and Jaybird demonstrates you can get some amazing images with patience and effort.

With regards to your tele-photo topic I was thinking more Wildlife in the sense of how I come across it. I will sometimes go specifically to find moose and gradually work my way towards them. However, in the rut these guys can get pretty aggressive so usually a 100 or even 200mm is asking for trouble. I'm a little lazy and won't usually trudge across and entire valley for an image. Well, if it was a spectacular specimen I might. However, I'd much rather have more tele range and not have to work as hard :). Also an Eagle even close is tough to fill a frame (even half) with only 300mm. i use my 1.4 tele on my 300mm a lot up here.

I've had this conversation years ago with another user on here regarding the 100-400 vs the 300. Here' the thing, with the 100-400 at 300mm you're at F5.6. With the 300mm fixed you're at F4. That's an advantage I needed when I bought the lens many years ago. Now with ISO so good it may not mater as much.

If I were to buy today I'm not sure what i'd do. Generally speaking primes are sharper, but again that may be old school thinking. I will say being able to "zoom" on the fly would be nice. Sometimes the location of an animal changes quickly (like it's flying right at you) and with a prime you might miss the shot. Personally I think the "push/pull" system of the 100-400 would be annoying, but I've never used one so that's speculation on my part.

You are going to want 400mm one way or another (or more!). Tough choice. Here's an interesting read. Let us know what you decide! http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/ef_100_400_l_is_review.html
 
IPT said:
Jaybrid - stunning. That's shooting from a blind with a set up/feeding area, yes?
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

I surrendered to the fact that I'll never afford BIG glass. I have a deep love for birds. this combination requires some improvising. I learned that birds come to calls more readily than to food. So with the combination of a bird call app for my ipod, and food I could bring in specific species. Takes some patience, but the result is worth it. Just watching them without even clicking the shutter at such a close range is magical!





 
Man, that's awesome. Love the cardinal shot! Tell me more about the "call app". Sounds pretty cool. Wonder what I could call in up here during the winter. Might be fun to play with.

I know we get chickadees, nuthatches, and some woodpeckers. Not sure woodpeckers stick around for the winter. Maybe, I just haven't seen one. Plenty of great horned owls but I've only seen a handful. Usually hear them at night. There are stellar jays and i hear they like peanuts but I've yet to try and bring them in. I was planning on it this winter.

I'd love to hear more about your techniques to get birds around.
 
I might develop a love for birds after those :)

That is an amazing set, especially since bluejays, orioles, and cardinals are at the top of my favorites list. Very impressive sir, very impressive.

And yes, do tell us more...
 
My set up is an open seed tray I built that attaches to an outside window sill. I don't want anything unnatural in my photos so I attach small branches to the tray for the birds to perch on. As youll see with the first pic I posted of the indigo bunting, the more interesting branch you use, can really improve the overall result of the image.

I am actually shooting these images thru the window. If Im planning to shoot that day, I'll meticulously clean the glass in the morning, set up the blind and leave it quiet for a couple hours. If I have an agenda for a certain species, I'll set up the ipod and set the bird call early on. I did this with the bunting and the oriole last spring.

I have black fabric that I hang in the window. Theres two holes cut in it. One for my lens and another just above it for me to peek thru. My camera is on a tripod and it is set in such a way that the lens is as close to the glass as possible to reduce reflection and bending. I also use a remote shutter release. Sometimes youll get a bird perched in one spot, just posing and you can just fire away.
Youll learn that the birds will find specific staging spots on the branches. So I'll just train my lens on that spot and wait. Shy birds will spook if your panning your lens all over the place to follow them.

I have attempted to do this with the window open to eliminate the glass factor. But the birds are just too spooked. My camera is sometimes as close to 12" away from them and that window gives them some security. Plus the shutter click sends everyone running for cover. I have been happy enough with the final results thru the window.

Plus, some of the best action is when its -30f ;)





As for calling birds. It is a wonderful way to get birds close. Even in the field!. One thing to consider about attracting birds is, "Birds attract other birds". If you are using bird calls to bring in birds, start by attracting your most common species. For me, that is Chickadees. Swarming, excited Chickadees attract attention from other birds. Once you start seeing more interesting birds, hunker down or get in a blind and start calling them. There are certain birds that respond to calls better than others and they also respond better in different seasons. It is definitely a fun and challenging game!

I have called in a few specific birds out of the clear blue sky. But your much more apt to succeed if you know the birds are near.

When you get rolling with the bird calls, it feel like cheating! Ive had days when I literally called in everything I tried. When I first started with calling, I was in the woods and just for the heck of it, queued up the Barred Owl call. Within 10 seconds I had a barred owl in the tree above me in broad daylight! The exact same thing happened with a Pileated Woodpecker.

As for the apps I use for my Ipod. "ChirpUSA" is very good. It has a good variety of birds and whats cool about this one it the calls are a constant loop. You can turn it on and hang the Ipod/portable speaker on a branch near where youre hiding and just let it play. often times with some patience, your bird will land right where you want him!

The best app is Audubon Birds. It has all the birds! The calls are all short, 10-15 second recordings so you have to man the device and keep pressing the call. The nice thing is most of the birds include a variety of calls. Example would be... Chatter. Song. Mating Call. Alarm chip. Young in Nest. Sometimes the birds respond very aggressively to one of these and not the other.

With the introduction of wireless, Bluetooth speaker devices, I imagine you can really get birds to land exactly where you want them in wild environments.

Have fun!! :)





 
Excellent job fine tuning your process, and recognizing and working with the behavior patterns of your subjects to achieve stellar results. :thumbsup:
 
So a little bit about how I do it. I don't have a blind off my house cuz I live in an apartment. My stuff is taken in parks and along streams and rivers when my wife and I go hiking. My birding lens is a Tamron 70-30. Like I said above, stealth is the key. Trudging through the woods or dressing wrong will get you squat. First learn what birds frequent what areas. Very easy on the web at a local audubon society. Dress the part. Browns and greens. Avoid blues. Last but not least, move slow. If you hear crows, you're being too loud. They are natures watchdogs. Also hunt early in the morning.

Some of mine.







DSC_5457.jpg


DSC_6143.jpg


DSC_4635.jpg


DSC_1118_zps4de8711b.jpg
 
Man, you guys have some NICE stuff. Jay I LOVE that cardinal in the snow....amazing!

I'll have to mess with the calls. Thanks for sharing the info. I'm going to have to look now and see what bird pics I have from my Fla Trips to share.
 
Louis. those are wonderful! That eagle has "Grumpy" written all over him. And the arctic Tern reflection is world class!

I don't know what it is about birds. They are so challenging that the rewards are very special!

I chased a goal to capture a perfect snowflake resting in the feathers of a beautiful bird. I hope to improve on what Ive already gotten, but the idea has motivated me.



 
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