Tell me about your success running a DSB. .

[Teremei]

But I assume, that you meant to say (without saying) is the reason some people's DSB have "crashed" is because they did not have the proper diversity of micro sandbed creatures, or "infauna" which help to keep the sediment from clumping. In part of his article. Am I correct in assuming you all agree?

Now just in my SSB I have noticed a variety of infauna. One being micro snails. These snails are less than 1/8" but you can clearly see them moving on the sand bed and rocks. And I assume they also borrow down into the sand during the day. These types of creatures are critical to the health of your DSB. Don't you agree? I guess I should seed some of my new tank with my old tank's sand, since it seems to have alot of these creatures in there.

Any other thoughts on the matenance of DSB and speculation about DSB "crashing". . .? Please discuss! With all the DSB vs. BB threads that are found when you search. It would be nice to have a large thread that just focuses on what makes DSB work, with opinions from people who have actually done it successfully, long term. It would be such a refreshing change of pace.

 

[Rod Buehler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6906865#post6906865 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Teremei
Well since I'm the one who wants to get back on topic. . .

what do you guys think is the main factor in people's failures, and the whole "tank crashing" thing? If you guy have such high bioload and feed so well, how come your DSB aren't crashing. .?

Thoughts.

The biggest reason IMO is improper grain size. Second reason would be not enough critters, whether they never seeded to begin with because of the bagged live sand, or because a sand sifter was eating them all, or because they werent being fed enough (sand beds need food!). Critters are key. Amnd not just the critters that can be seen fairly easily, but the ones that most of us cant see even when they are right in front of us on the glass.. Low water flow and poor skiming is also detrimental to a sand bed.

 

[Teremei]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6907410#post6907410 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod Buehler
The biggest reason IMO is improper grain size. Second reason would be not enough critters, whether they never seeded to begin with because of the bagged live sand, or because a sand sifter was eating them all, or because they werent being fed enough (sand beds need food!). Critters are key. Amnd not just the critters that can be seen fairly easily, but the ones that most of us cant see even when they are right in front of us on the glass.. Low water flow and poor skiming is also detrimental to a sand bed.

Those all make sense, and combine together for proper DSB health.

So it is important to feed enough. Besides Phytoplankton what other foods should be hitting the sand bed so the critters in there can get it? (during my research I've read that you should feed your DSB even before you stock your tank. Things like phyto and some small meaty items).

Also, would you say southdown is the proper grain size for a good DSB? Dr. Ron said something like .01mm = .1mm is a good size and having alot of each size is good for variety.

 

[Sullyman]

Southdown is just fine, don't rinse it.
I would just use the Phyto to get started, and seed it from the sand you.ve got going in the 55.

 

[Teremei]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6911328#post6911328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sullyman
Southdown is just fine, don't rinse it.
I would just use the Phyto to get started, and seed it from the sand you.ve got going in the 55.

Yeah that sounds good. I have read up alot, not rinsing SD is one of them, due to it getting rid of the really fine "muddy" stuff which you want. I can take a little sand from my tank, but not too much since I'm going to keeping running it for a few months as I slowly transfer everything.

 

[Whaledriver]

There are a couple of good sand bed starting kits. I would get both. I dont think you can really go too deep. I think Southdown sized sand is the best. Get every type of sand snail you can get and see which ones survive after a few years. Ceriths are my favorites. I tent to overfeed to leave food for all the critters in the tank.

I would not get any creatures with claws as they tend to eat the snails ie..hemit crabs, shrimp, and hitchhiker crabs.

I just put a cheato refuge on one tank with a deepsandbed. I had a minor red slime problem due to overfeeding( the fish like it) and the Cheato stoped it cold. I think the refuge is the final piece to the DSB tank setup.

Good skimmer, refuge, healthy selection of critters, good flow, and good lighting. Thats all you need to do other than watching your chemistry.

 

[Teremei]

Does anybody think a few crabs and shrimp are ok in a 125 DSB? I have love for cleaner shrimp, and scarlett hermits. I do know they tend to suck on the sand which is probably not good for DSB. But would 3 or 4 scarletts really be detrimental to a DSB?

BTW all the things you all have mentioned I am doing..

125 w 5" Southdown DSB with some figi pink scattered in
VHO lighting
40 Gal sump with fuge and packed with macro
Good snail variety - Fighting Conch, strombus, Cerrith, Astrea
Good flow - atleast 25x turnover also using rotating hydors on returns
Going mainy with softies and small community fish (no sand sifter gobies)

 

[Sullyman]

A few cleaners would be great, no problem. You're going to want more than a few Blue leg hermits, a lot more.
I've put in dozens of scarlets, they spend more time on the rocks.

 

[Rod Buehler]

If you are having issues with some turf algae, then I am not against a few hermits to help with the situation, but if your not haveing issues, I would not add any. They are too much of an oportunistic feeder. If I did add some It would be the scarlets first. Cleaner shrimp will not cause any dammage to a sand bed in a 125

 

[marilynrn711]

Some things I have that mess w my sand bed -

Maroon clown, large clam, engineer goby, and sand starfish. I have tried moving the clam off the sand but he always manages to make his way back down.

I havent been able to part w any of them yet, and have all different sand depths, which is probably not a good thing.

You may want to consider this before getting any of these critters.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Does anyone know if a tigertail cucumber is ok in a DSB?

 

[Teremei]

They just stay over the sand I think. Even though they've been reccomended for keeping my SSB clean I'm thinking once I go DSB won't most of the critters INSIDE a functioning DSB keep the top layer clean? That is what I was under the impression of.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I was told the same thing. Waiting to hear what Rod has to say though.

 

[Teremei]

Oh I see. Are you having problems keeping your DSB surface clean? Or is a cuke just for coolness factor?

 

[Pufferpunk]

I am concerned about the sand behind all my rock. I pretty much have a wall of rock & no pumps behind it to move debris around. Figured I'd throw the fella back there & let him do his thing.

 

[Rod Buehler]

Cukes are great! But yeas, if.. If you can get the micro-critter population high enough, they will keep the sand clean. I do highly recommend a cuke for every deep sand bed of 40 gallons or more.

Marilynrn: what type of clam is it. If its a crocea, it would prefer to be in the rocks and that may be why it it is digging in your sand. If it is a crocea and doesnt want to anchor itself to teh rock work, try sliding a small thin rock under the sand bed where the clam is. The varying depths are OK as long as there are enough deep areas that dont get disturbed. The goby, sand sifting star are very detrimental. I am assuming that the maroon clown (natorius diggers) is digging in just one spot? Its usually sexual frustration and would stop if she had a mate.. The problem is, , Its prertty tough to pair up maroons.

 

[Rod Buehler]

I just saw UV mentioned in another thread and I thought Id comment on UV here.. IN MY OPINION, I beleive that they are very detrimental to a DSB. It may not kill all of the microfauna, but a good portion of the spawns produced bythe microfauna... just my opinion.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Rod to the rescue again! Thanks, as soon as we can get that cuke outta the 180g it's going into my 55g. Should I be restocking my sand critters, or will they reproduce themselves?

 

[Wampatom]

Saying you need a variety of micro-fauna without specifying what they are gives the proponents of deep sand beds a ready explanation for any failure. Ron Shimek has been unwilling to state what is needed.

Sandra Shoup (sp) is a Shimek disciple. She has done careful studies cataloging the microscopic inhabitants of deep sand beds. In her talk at IMAC last year, and in personal communication, she said the inhabitants of a deep sand bed must be replenished EVERY YEAR. She does this by introducing a new piece of live rock rather than live sand.

No one has cataloged the bacteria needed for a successful aquarium reef system. However, Tim Hovanec has started using the necessary microbiological tools for this work.

Facts:
In natural reefs there are abundant sand creature that play an important role in reef ecosystems.

Incorrect assumptions:
Deep sand beds are therefore better for keeping corals in reef aquariums.

Facts:
I (as well as many others) have kept a variety of reef systems with and without deep sand beds--some have thrived, some have not. I see no correlation between the sand bed and success. This does not mean sand beds are not helpful. It just means there are many other factors.

 

[Racenrich]

wow another DSB thread...cool....

well for anyone that cares....i have run a 4in DSB in my 55g for 2.7yrs with complete success.....although the 55g came down about a month ago, i used about 10-12#'s of the sand from the 55g for the 120g upgrade....upon removing the sandbed, yes to my amazement, i did not have ANY bad pockets, or fouled areas....everything looked great.
It looked great and had plenty of life. For 2.7yrs worth i had expected worse, yet i was pleasently surprised to see how well the sand bed actually worked!
my rock was placed right on the sand from the start....i have had only 2-sand sifting snails and 1-star in there....all and all i think my tank turned out well. I hope i have the same success with the 120G.

shot for the masses....55g prior to take down.