scubasteve247
New member
elos is awesome!!!! i love there stuff, but i cant afford it 
Test kits
- Thread starter tperk9784
- Start date
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
12 hour day at work makes for a long day..............
OK - let's take the calcium test.
Saliferts: basically
Add water to vial
Add solid regeant to vial
Add liquid regeant to vial
MIX
Then you are attempting to draw a liquid regeant into a syringe accurate to the 1/100th of a ml.
Then dosing one drop at a time into the vial till you get a color change.
Then reading the syringe once again.
Then comparing to a chart.
Have you ever wondered how much one little extra air bubble has thrown the test off? Or wondered if you are even reading the syringe correctly? After all, this is a syringe that is marked to 1/100th of a ml. Do I read from the very edge of where the rubber stopper meets the marks or midway?
How about a test where you simply
Add water to a vial.
Add solid regeant to the vial.
Mix
Add drops of second liquid reagent until the color changes (and stays the new color for 30 secs).
(it isn't like you have to count the 30 secs. This is just to nullify the one or two drops that will change color and revert back within a couple of secs)
Multiply the drops by 25.
Easy - Accurate - No "wondering if I did it right"
OK - let's take the calcium test.
Saliferts: basically
Add water to vial
Add solid regeant to vial
Add liquid regeant to vial
MIX
Then you are attempting to draw a liquid regeant into a syringe accurate to the 1/100th of a ml.
Then dosing one drop at a time into the vial till you get a color change.
Then reading the syringe once again.
Then comparing to a chart.
Have you ever wondered how much one little extra air bubble has thrown the test off? Or wondered if you are even reading the syringe correctly? After all, this is a syringe that is marked to 1/100th of a ml. Do I read from the very edge of where the rubber stopper meets the marks or midway?
How about a test where you simply
Add water to a vial.
Add solid regeant to the vial.
Mix
Add drops of second liquid reagent until the color changes (and stays the new color for 30 secs).
(it isn't like you have to count the 30 secs. This is just to nullify the one or two drops that will change color and revert back within a couple of secs)
Multiply the drops by 25.
Easy - Accurate - No "wondering if I did it right"
jeffbrig
Premium Member
lol, the only effective difference is the use of 2 reagents for salifert vs. 1 for the elos.
After that, they're both simple titration tests, and quite accurate. With Salifert you fill the syringe and add dropwise. Instead of counting drops, you read the graduations when you're done. In the other test, you add dropwise while counting, and the volume of the drop is known and taken into account by the calculation.
After that, they're both simple titration tests, and quite accurate. With Salifert you fill the syringe and add dropwise. Instead of counting drops, you read the graduations when you're done. In the other test, you add dropwise while counting, and the volume of the drop is known and taken into account by the calculation.
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
I guess I hold the "questioning" of accurate syringe use and reading to a bit of a higher standard. Seems to me that there is more room for error.
In fact, I'm in a control group at the present time doing some water tests and some of these questions have already come up with different individuals throughout the group.
I still view the Elos as simpler with less of a chance for error.
In fact, I'm in a control group at the present time doing some water tests and some of these questions have already come up with different individuals throughout the group.
I still view the Elos as simpler with less of a chance for error.
db_triggerfish
Premium Member
coralfargger101 might be right on track. I only have the Elos KH (Alkalinitytest kit) that i got from Doral Aquarium.
Just went Marinedepot and copied and paste instruction on the Salifert kit vs Elos.
Salifert:
. Add with the 5 ml syringe 4 ml of water in the test vial. For a lower resolution and more tests per kit add 2 instead of 4 ml.
2. Shake the KH-Ind dropping bottle a few times and add 2 drops in the test vial (1 drop for the low resolution mode).
3. Put the plastic tip firmly on the 1 ml syringe. And draw into the syringe the KH reagent (ensure that the end of the plastic tip is constantly submersed in the KH reagent) till the lower end of the black part of the piston is exactly at the 1.00 ml mark. There will be some air present just below the piston. This is the air which was present between the end of the plastic tip and the piston. This will not influence the test result.
4. Add dropwise with the 1 ml syringe the KH reagent to the water in the test tube. Swirl after each drop a second or two. Continue with this until the color changes from blue/green to orange-red or pink color (whichever color is observed first).
5. Hold the syringe with the tip facing upward and read the position of the, now the upper end, of the black part of the piston. The syringe has graduations of 0.01 ml. Read the KH or alkalinity value from the table or calculate as follows.
KH in dKH = (1 - reading in step 5) x 16
Alk in meq/L = (1 - reading in step 5) x 5.71
If you have chosen for the lower resolution multiply the calculated result by 2.
Natural sea water has a KH of 8 dKH or alkalinity of 2.9 meq/L
KH and alkalinity are increased safely with Salifert'sKH + pH Buffer.
KH/Alkalinity Table
If you took 2 ml of water in step 1 then multiply the KH and alkalinity values by 2!
Reading in ml's (step 5) KH value in dKH Alkalinity in meq/L
0.00 16.0 5.71
0.02 15.7 5.60
0.04 15.4 5.49
0.06 15.0 5.37
0.08 14.7 5.26
0.10 14.4 5.14
0.12 14.1 5.03
0.14 13.8 4.91
0.16 13.4 4.80
0.18 13.1 4.69
0.20 12.8 4.57
0.22 12.5 4.46
0.24 12.2 4.34
0.26 11.8 4.23
0.28 11.5 4.11
0.30 11.2 4.00
0.32 10.9 3.89
0.34 10.6 3.77
0.36 10.2 3.66
0.38 9.9 3.54
0.40 9.6 3.43
0.42 9.3 3.31
0.44 9.0 3.20
0.46 8.6 3.09
0.48 8.3 2.97
0.50 8.0 2.86
0.52 7.7 2.74
0.54 7.4 2.63
0.56 7.0 2.51
0.58 6.7 2.40
0.60 6.4 2.29
0.62 6.1 2.17
0.64 5.8 2.06
0.66 5.4 1.94
0.68 5.1 1.83
0.70 4.8 1.71
0.72 4.5 1.60
0.74 4.2 1.49
0.76 3.8 1.37
0.78 3.5 1.26
0.80 3.2 1.14
0.82 2.9 1.03
0.84 2.6 0.91
0.86 2.2 0.80
0.88 1.9 0.69
0.90 1.6 0.57
0.92 1.3 0.46
0.94 1.0 0.34
0.96 0.6 0.23
0.98 0.3 0.11
NOTE: They maybe a better way but this is what a copied from Marinedepot.
ELOS:
i just did it 10 minutes ago:
1. shake dropper bottle.
2. add aquarium water to 5ml mark on test vial.
3. Add one drop at time, skake lightly between drops.
4. When solution turns from cyan to yellow stop count drops.
in my case 9 drops = 9 dKH Done!
Again this is the only test i have from them. The other test in my lfs for alk, i had to convert scale. so i went with Elos for this test.
Also before i found out on rc that Salifert is a very good brand i just passed them over because the outside box looks so cheap. Yes, i judged the book by its cover.
Just went Marinedepot and copied and paste instruction on the Salifert kit vs Elos.
Salifert:
. Add with the 5 ml syringe 4 ml of water in the test vial. For a lower resolution and more tests per kit add 2 instead of 4 ml.
2. Shake the KH-Ind dropping bottle a few times and add 2 drops in the test vial (1 drop for the low resolution mode).
3. Put the plastic tip firmly on the 1 ml syringe. And draw into the syringe the KH reagent (ensure that the end of the plastic tip is constantly submersed in the KH reagent) till the lower end of the black part of the piston is exactly at the 1.00 ml mark. There will be some air present just below the piston. This is the air which was present between the end of the plastic tip and the piston. This will not influence the test result.
4. Add dropwise with the 1 ml syringe the KH reagent to the water in the test tube. Swirl after each drop a second or two. Continue with this until the color changes from blue/green to orange-red or pink color (whichever color is observed first).
5. Hold the syringe with the tip facing upward and read the position of the, now the upper end, of the black part of the piston. The syringe has graduations of 0.01 ml. Read the KH or alkalinity value from the table or calculate as follows.
KH in dKH = (1 - reading in step 5) x 16
Alk in meq/L = (1 - reading in step 5) x 5.71
If you have chosen for the lower resolution multiply the calculated result by 2.
Natural sea water has a KH of 8 dKH or alkalinity of 2.9 meq/L
KH and alkalinity are increased safely with Salifert'sKH + pH Buffer.
KH/Alkalinity Table
If you took 2 ml of water in step 1 then multiply the KH and alkalinity values by 2!
Reading in ml's (step 5) KH value in dKH Alkalinity in meq/L
0.00 16.0 5.71
0.02 15.7 5.60
0.04 15.4 5.49
0.06 15.0 5.37
0.08 14.7 5.26
0.10 14.4 5.14
0.12 14.1 5.03
0.14 13.8 4.91
0.16 13.4 4.80
0.18 13.1 4.69
0.20 12.8 4.57
0.22 12.5 4.46
0.24 12.2 4.34
0.26 11.8 4.23
0.28 11.5 4.11
0.30 11.2 4.00
0.32 10.9 3.89
0.34 10.6 3.77
0.36 10.2 3.66
0.38 9.9 3.54
0.40 9.6 3.43
0.42 9.3 3.31
0.44 9.0 3.20
0.46 8.6 3.09
0.48 8.3 2.97
0.50 8.0 2.86
0.52 7.7 2.74
0.54 7.4 2.63
0.56 7.0 2.51
0.58 6.7 2.40
0.60 6.4 2.29
0.62 6.1 2.17
0.64 5.8 2.06
0.66 5.4 1.94
0.68 5.1 1.83
0.70 4.8 1.71
0.72 4.5 1.60
0.74 4.2 1.49
0.76 3.8 1.37
0.78 3.5 1.26
0.80 3.2 1.14
0.82 2.9 1.03
0.84 2.6 0.91
0.86 2.2 0.80
0.88 1.9 0.69
0.90 1.6 0.57
0.92 1.3 0.46
0.94 1.0 0.34
0.96 0.6 0.23
0.98 0.3 0.11
NOTE: They maybe a better way but this is what a copied from Marinedepot.
ELOS:
i just did it 10 minutes ago:
1. shake dropper bottle.
2. add aquarium water to 5ml mark on test vial.
3. Add one drop at time, skake lightly between drops.
4. When solution turns from cyan to yellow stop count drops.
in my case 9 drops = 9 dKH Done!
Again this is the only test i have from them. The other test in my lfs for alk, i had to convert scale. so i went with Elos for this test.
Also before i found out on rc that Salifert is a very good brand i just passed them over because the outside box looks so cheap. Yes, i judged the book by its cover.
Last edited:
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
My main reason for originally posting in this thread was not really an attempt to sway anyone one way or the other.
I read the thread and all I saw was a unanamous "hands down" for Saliferts. If I was a newbee reading this thread then I might automatically think that to be true and then that would have been my belief as well.
Yet, no one that suggested Saliferts offered any kind of reason what so ever as to why they thought that Saliferts were better. As soon as some one else posts a different view point (me) - then I'm put on trial !!! (not really - and no offense taken).
My real point is that there are other very good test kits out there. When push comes to shove, I doubt that any one "brand" could be labled the best. You would have to clinically test each and every type of kit.
There has to be a "downside" to every brands products. I have found several with Elos and I'll be the first to admit that as well.
1. The vial caps don't seem to fit tight enough. If you use the cap as the instructions state it is possible that the contents will leak out.
SOLUTION: You don't have to use the caps. A simple swirling method of mixing works just fine.
2. The directions for several of the test gets to the point after you've added reagents and it simply says, "shake for 5 min and then compare the color". Who in their right mind wants to sit there and shake a vial for 5 mins.
SOLUTION: You don't have to. Simply swirl the vial to mix for 20-30 secs and set it down. Come back in 5 min, give it a quick swirl and compare the color.
3. And this is the biggest one. It "appears" that there could be a problem with the Nitrite Kit. Thus far, I have received a false positive reading with this kit. At this point, I don't know if it's the regeants or if it's a problem with the color chart when they made changes from their Euro version to the North American version. Jury is still out on this one.
3. I believe they need to reword some of the instructions.
A. The directions DO say to shake each reagent prior to use. This should be EMPHASISED. Some other brands tell you to shake one or two of the regeants. It is good to simply get in the habit of shaking each and every regeant each and every time prior to its use. This way, you will never forget to.
B. When adding drops of regeant, hold the regeant bottle completely vertical to the vial and squeeze. This will give you a consistant drop size. Unlike some other cheaper brands, these regeants will not come out by themselves simply by turning the regeant bottle vertical.
So is there a downside? Of course there is. The only real problem I see at the present time is with the Nitrite kit however.
Disclaimer: NO - I don't work for Elos.
I simply like the product compared to others I have tried so far.
I read the thread and all I saw was a unanamous "hands down" for Saliferts. If I was a newbee reading this thread then I might automatically think that to be true and then that would have been my belief as well.
Yet, no one that suggested Saliferts offered any kind of reason what so ever as to why they thought that Saliferts were better. As soon as some one else posts a different view point (me) - then I'm put on trial !!! (not really - and no offense taken).
My real point is that there are other very good test kits out there. When push comes to shove, I doubt that any one "brand" could be labled the best. You would have to clinically test each and every type of kit.
There has to be a "downside" to every brands products. I have found several with Elos and I'll be the first to admit that as well.
1. The vial caps don't seem to fit tight enough. If you use the cap as the instructions state it is possible that the contents will leak out.
SOLUTION: You don't have to use the caps. A simple swirling method of mixing works just fine.
2. The directions for several of the test gets to the point after you've added reagents and it simply says, "shake for 5 min and then compare the color". Who in their right mind wants to sit there and shake a vial for 5 mins.
SOLUTION: You don't have to. Simply swirl the vial to mix for 20-30 secs and set it down. Come back in 5 min, give it a quick swirl and compare the color.
3. And this is the biggest one. It "appears" that there could be a problem with the Nitrite Kit. Thus far, I have received a false positive reading with this kit. At this point, I don't know if it's the regeants or if it's a problem with the color chart when they made changes from their Euro version to the North American version. Jury is still out on this one.
3. I believe they need to reword some of the instructions.
A. The directions DO say to shake each reagent prior to use. This should be EMPHASISED. Some other brands tell you to shake one or two of the regeants. It is good to simply get in the habit of shaking each and every regeant each and every time prior to its use. This way, you will never forget to.
B. When adding drops of regeant, hold the regeant bottle completely vertical to the vial and squeeze. This will give you a consistant drop size. Unlike some other cheaper brands, these regeants will not come out by themselves simply by turning the regeant bottle vertical.
So is there a downside? Of course there is. The only real problem I see at the present time is with the Nitrite kit however.
Disclaimer: NO - I don't work for Elos.
I simply like the product compared to others I have tried so far.
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
I agree- many many many ways to skin a cat. Me like many others in this hobby really stick to what works for us over the years.
In my case for example I'm a DD fanatic(never good to be one) and have tried others skimmers but always come back to my beloved ETSS LOL. Anyways that does not mean that all others dont work but since I feel comfortable using one in particular, like an old man don't want to change.
I can see now how this thread will becoma a bashing of DD and old technology.
BTW Internet based forums are just that a way for many of us to just write some crap and wait for a response. In real life many of the threads are started or responded by really nice people with tons of knowledge. I know over the last year since i've been involved in the forums and what not I've obtained tons of useful info as well as read thru some massive crap. 10- 15 years of superficial knowledge in the hobby would have never prepared me for this amount of misinformation and information on the net.
Rogger Castells
New member
Coralfarmer, Sorry you felt this way, I was in no way trying to make you feel bad or judge your preference, but rather I was truly interested in knowing why the Elos test kit was better, I must say that reading this has not made me change my mind but now I am happy to know that there is a comparable test kit to Salifert available.
In the future posting in this forum please remember that we are a bunch of very friendly people with the same interest, so feel free to express your opinion but just remember that you are pretty new to us and therefore we don't know if you are serious hobbiest trying to share your knowledge or a 14 year old kit just being a brat!
I encourage you to come to this Tuesday's meeting so we can all meet you.
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
I have no problems with anyone questioning me and I will be the first to admit that I am far from even considering myself any kind of expert either.
I've learned what I know through the "try it and see method". To that end, I have made many mistakes and have unfortunately caused the premature demise of countless sea creatures. I am just now in the process of rebuilding (almost finished) my new system hopefully better than my previous attempts. I owe this to finding a forum similar to this one a couple of years ago and have learned from numerous knowledgeable folks on that site. Until now, I've basically been doing this all solo since none of my friends or co-workers have reef tanks and I'm glad that I have now found this forum with so many active local folks. I actually am going to attempt to make it to this week's meeting.
I haven't read the rules here and don't know if it would be ethical to post a link to my thread on the other forum. It documents the entire process of where I've been to where I am. Very photo intense. If you are interested in reading then PM me and I'll send you a link.
Am I a serious hobbiest?
Not that a dollar figure is a good gauge of "seriousness" but I've probably spent in the neighborhood of 10k over the last 5 yrs on this hobby and that doesn't include my latest endeavor.
14 yrs old?
LOL - I wish. I've got 4 grand kids.
Looking forward to meeting everyone.
Chuck
I've learned what I know through the "try it and see method". To that end, I have made many mistakes and have unfortunately caused the premature demise of countless sea creatures. I am just now in the process of rebuilding (almost finished) my new system hopefully better than my previous attempts. I owe this to finding a forum similar to this one a couple of years ago and have learned from numerous knowledgeable folks on that site. Until now, I've basically been doing this all solo since none of my friends or co-workers have reef tanks and I'm glad that I have now found this forum with so many active local folks. I actually am going to attempt to make it to this week's meeting.
I haven't read the rules here and don't know if it would be ethical to post a link to my thread on the other forum. It documents the entire process of where I've been to where I am. Very photo intense. If you are interested in reading then PM me and I'll send you a link.
Am I a serious hobbiest?
Not that a dollar figure is a good gauge of "seriousness" but I've probably spent in the neighborhood of 10k over the last 5 yrs on this hobby and that doesn't include my latest endeavor.
14 yrs old?
LOL - I wish. I've got 4 grand kids.
Looking forward to meeting everyone.
Chuck
Rogger Castells
New member
Chuck I am glad you have a good sence of humor, you are welcome to PM me the link to your previous thread I would love to read it.
I am sure that you will enjoy the meeting so try not to miss it, it will be a a lot of fun.......oh, if you have any frags you would like to auction please feel free to bring them too. The club does a 50/50 split auction at the end of each meeting.
I am sure that you will enjoy the meeting so try not to miss it, it will be a a lot of fun.......oh, if you have any frags you would like to auction please feel free to bring them too. The club does a 50/50 split auction at the end of each meeting.
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
PM's replied to.
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
Thanks. Obviously, it's work in progress. Not sure it will ever have an ending.
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
I can't honestly say I've used the Salifert's PO4.
The ELOS: Add 2 drops of regeant A, Add 2 drops of regeant B, mix, compare the color after 5 min.
(this is one of the kits that say, "mix for 5 min") but is not necessary. Mix it, set it down, read it 5 min later.
The colors are different shades of blue but the shades are far enough apart that I've never had a problem reading.
Has reading increments of: .01, .05, .1, .25, .5, .75 and 1.0
The ELOS: Add 2 drops of regeant A, Add 2 drops of regeant B, mix, compare the color after 5 min.
(this is one of the kits that say, "mix for 5 min") but is not necessary. Mix it, set it down, read it 5 min later.
The colors are different shades of blue but the shades are far enough apart that I've never had a problem reading.
Has reading increments of: .01, .05, .1, .25, .5, .75 and 1.0
coralfragger101
Gone Postal
A photo of the comparison chart.
