Thank you and Question

[Snailspace]

Roger, I am fairly new around here and don't really understand your connection with Tunze. But I have seen you respond to many of the same questions, find parts for people (or connect them to others who have them), expedite shipping, and advise others with great knowledge and understanding about how Tunze equipment works. You are a real asset for Tunze and a valuable friend of aquarists. Thanks.

Since aquariums can get complicated and cluttered easily, we can easily become more involved with the equipment than the viewing. With this in mind, I have a basic Turbelle Stream system question.

It would seem that all of the components could be consolidated and cleaned up better. For example, all of the necessary controls are there but in different places. Speed control is in one box where other adjustments are in the controller. The "hockey puck" transformer and wiring connecting this and speed control and pump is bulky and seems more complicated than necessary. A round transformer does not fit well in a mostly square world. Couldn't the transformers and speed control be located in the controller box? Of course it would be larger but it would be loads cleaner and easier to locate and mount overall.

Tunze systems seem to work well by themselves but not so great in combinaton with other necessary components. When I feed, I shut ALL pumps down (reef). The most important pump to shut off is the filter return pump so I don't waste the food. Circulation pumps like the Streams are secondary but need to be off as well. Couldn't the Tunze controller include a standard 120v AC female 3-prong circuit so we could plug our main pumps into this? If so, this circuit could be tied into the timer for feeding. One button could shut down the Streams but also the aux. outlet to the min pump. I have heard the same concern from others trying to tie a main pump into the Turbelle system. Automating the circulation system helps greatly but it is still "stand alone" making our overall aquarium system not so automatic. Unfortunately, we have to deal with the entire system not just one aspect.

My intent is only to improve our options and certainly not bash a great company like TUNZE. I think you care and would like to hear your comments. Somehow I feel you have thought about such things.

 

[rvitko]

As for my connection, I am the US distributor and consider Axel Tunze to be one of my best friends so we work very closely and I consider myself part of the company but for tax reasons and to minimize complications in international law my company is seperate and I am the president of the company.

What you suggest can be done, however, the transformer is on a cord so only a standard plug goes into the wall and does not block outlets. We use the system of three components so that the pumps can be upgraded and parts changed thus ensuring a long useful life. If the driver were to get wet and you needed a new transformer and driver because they are one piece the cost of replacement would be much higher and the need for these parts to cool from heat sinks prevents us from potting them. It would also be impossible to upgrade just by swapping transformers as you can now.

Our controllers have a built in countdown foodtimer that stops the pump for 5min. You can connect any pump up to 150w to a socket 7094.40 and get foodtimer control but if you are using a non controllable pump on this socket the channel it is connected to must be at 100% power to prevent damage to the pump.

In general with the Stream pumps and by European standards of aquarium set up the powerheads are the primary source of flow. The general standard in Europe for filter systems is 1-2 turns an hour therough the filter for freshwater and 3-5 for saltwater. Powerheads provide the majority of flow because they are far more energy efficient due to the lack of head pressure. The filters work better with greater contact time and less turbulence affecting skimmer level and top off systems. When a tank is set up this way there is little need to shut off the filter pumps for feeding, the turnover is not so dramatic that much food is lost this way.

 

[Snailspace]

Tunze Stream Up n Running

Tunze Stream Up n Running

Roger,
Having now installed and tweaked two 6000's and 7094 controller in my 150g, I can honestly say this Tunze system is awesome. Just last night I was able to see polyp extensions from pineapple brain, maze brain, Merulina, Digitatda that was greater. The pumps can deliver more than my arragement can handle and the controller gives you enough options so the user can find what they like. Great product!

I can easily see your point that the components of the system are "repair friendly" helping us to reduce costs if something goes bad. This is the beauty of the separate transformer...driver box...controller...pump arrangement. The ugly is that...well...it is ugly. It is a balancing act (and space allocation act) to mount all that stuff. I can't imagine what a 4 or 6 pump system with more splitter boxes etc would look like. I think the system works so well and has so few problems that a new design is in order.

But, for now, I can this Tunze system is good for the aquarium and I recommend it. Having used a SEIO, Maxi-jets etc for circulation, I am glad to have this one. I feel the main strengths are the pumps themselves and the controller. I will also add that people like Roger are perhaps the most important strength to consider. I am amazed at his understanding of the product, accessibility, and true concern.

 

[rvitko]

We are constantly working on new designs. The problem is that pleasing everybody just isn't possible. A lot of customers need the long cord, in former times we offered a 3m cord and a 6m cord. The 6m version needed an amplifier and was more expensive. Having two models limited production capacity and complicated inventory for us and shops. We compromised on one 5m cord version which is as long as the cord can be without a signal amplifier. I promise if you mount the transformers and drivers and wind the cords with cable ties it really isn't that bad. By necessity the transformer is huge, believe me, I have inquired about the fancy step down electronics in cell phone chargers and laptops and they don't work with this sort of consistent Amp load. If we had such a solution, maybe it could be integrated on the board and for not much more. We do offer a custom version with the transformer and driver and controller sealed in a waterproof box but it adds $150 to the price, only zoos and aquaria buy such a product. Maybe someday we will have something better but every idea requires all four of us- myself, Claude, Axel and Brigette be unanimously convinced it is a good idea or likely it won't happen. Then the machinists and electrician show us what is real and practical and sometimes that can crush an idea. The company is a small family owned company and that gives us enormous flexibility and creative power compared to trying to appease stock holders and corporate folks. It does however mean we have to stay to what can practically be done with what we have and those are finite resources. People already complain about the expense and with low volume hand made production expense can add up easily. Eventually the latest technology becomes feasible as the price drops and we have some new toys in the works that possibly in 5-6 years could lead to something like you envision. Again though, what is a recent technology will have to become more affordable.

 

[Snailspace]

Roger, I have no doubt that it is in your nature to not only service your clients well but to give thought to the improvements as they become feasible. I can't tell you how many times the answer to a question has ultimately been "cost." Having developed some products of both revised and new technologies, I understand the complexities of seeing an idea through. It is hard work.

The cord length idea. I ahvre found that solid connections (circuit boards, close proximity etc) have a positive effect thus reducing the negativity (amperage) of a longer cord. Don't give up. But the cord length was not the real issue. It was the numerous devices along the cord. I, too, thought of combining the transformer and driver into a single box as being a good move. Of course heat dissappation is critical. Regardless, like the flourescent light, there's got to be a "box" between the device (light) and source (wall outlet). The Tunze controller adds another necessary box. So it would advantagoeus if the four of you could at least consider that much for 5 minutes. As I see it, reduction of transformer cords/connection and driver box cord/connection) could offset the slightly larger box cost than the driver uses.

In addition to the driver/transformer consolidation, I would also recommend an external disconnect for the elect. supply to the pump. Some may see it as sacrificing waterroofing but I say the whole driver box is not waterproof anyway. You can't make everything submersible.

The best part of it all is that these are all possible improvements on an already KILLER pump system. My hat's off to you guys. My aquarium inhabitants say thanks too.

Your a good man, Roger. Just give it some thought. And if you make the revisions, contact me for a purchase. But hurry...cuz I'm starting on them myself next week. Want to help with some of the parts?