the Cove

[Bifferwine]

When I was a grade school student we were taught that an ice age during our lifetime was a very real possibility. In high school we were told that because of the depleted ozone layer we would all die from cancer due too much UV reaching the earth's surface. Now the same people of the same political persuasion are trying to sell me global warming?

I am not denying there has been warming because there is evidence. There is none that indicates humans are the major reason. I also find it interesting that other planets in our solar system have experienced global warming. How do you explain this?

Wow. As a scientist, and as a person who has taught science at the university level, this lack of basic understanding is appalling.

The ice age thing: the earth is currently in a natural cooling phase, if we follow the historic and prehistoric cycles the planet takes. 40 or 50 years ago, if the earth had taken its natural path and followed the natural cooling and warming cycle that it always has, it would indeed be cooling right now. We are supposed to be in a downturn. But for some reason, it keeps getting hotter -- contrary to the part of earth's natural cycle that we are in. So yeah, had global warming not kicked in, we would be getting cooler right now. The evidence for global warming didn't start piling up until the 80s and 90s. Before that, people had reason to believe that the earth would follow its natural cycle. Now we know better.

The ozone layer: The reason the ozone layer has been able to heal itself and the horrible things you were told would happen didn't happen is because humans DID heed the warnings of scientists. The overwhelming evidence about the ozone hole caused 196 countries to sign the Montreal Protocol, which banned the worst of the ozone-depleting chemicals. The Montreal Protocol is considered one of THE most effective international agreements ever. Not just environmental, but overall. Since it went into effect in the late 80s, the ozone layer has been able to slowly heal itself. Not because ozone depletion doesn't really exist and is a political scam, as you say. But because the substances that cause it were banned all over the globe!

There are MOUNTAINS of evidence showing that humans are the primary cause of global climate change (not just global warming). From tons of different lines of evidence -- not just one source. As to your assertion about other planets, well other planets undergo warming and cooling naturally just as earth does. The difference is that for the last few decades, earth has been warming when it should be cooling, every year it keeps getting worse, scientists are beginning to see changes in species' behaviors and survival rates, and it can be very clearly attributed to human causes.

 

[aquaph8]

Thats interesting, I didn't know all the stuff about the Montreal Protocol. Dont be appalled though, there's a lot of stuff I dont know.:lmao:

 

[Tucson Reef]

For every science scholar for global warming there is same or more that say hog wash. The global warming scam crowd got exposed not too long ago on how they were controling releasess to the media to only show favorable findings.

But then I'm a high school drop out to dumb to believe people just because they say so and have a PHD or some other proof they know more!

 

[Bifferwine]

For every science scholar for global warming there is same or more that say hog wash.

That's not true, either. It's more of a ratio of 999 to 1 (or less). There was a study done not too long ago on the consensus within the scientific community. It showed that the vast majority of scholars, academics and scientists believe that global warming is human caused... Like 99% or more. The thing is, that 1% that doesn't believe it is extremely vocal, and the media tends to like to give 50/50 coverage to both sides of this issue, so it only appears that the scientific community is evenly split. But it's really not.

There are only a handful of reputable scientists that are climate change "doubters". And what's interesting, is that if you look at their backgrounds, almost all of them currently are, or were at one time, on the payrolls of gas and oil companies. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the 1 out of every 100 or 1000 scientists that is very vocally opposed to the idea that global warming is man-made are paid by oil and gas companies?

What does you being a high school dropout have to do with anything? As long as someone can read, weigh evidence and draw logical conclusions, level of formal education attained has nothing to do with intelligence.

Perhaps what you are getting is at is that since you are not a part of the scientific community and don't spend a lot of time reading scientific journals and studies regarding changes happening on earth, you may not be familiar with what scientists actually think, and what the scientific consensus actually is. I'll give you that. Within the scientific community, there is VERY LITTLE dissent when it comes to this issue. And the people that do dissent, usually have ulterior motives that involve their own paychecks.

Edit: If you don't think there's scientific consensus, here is a document written by the 18 premier scientific societies in the US stating that there is. They range from the American Chemical Society, to the American Institute of Biological Sciences, to the American Meteorological Society, to the American Statistical Association, the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics, the Soil Science Society of America, and others. Believe me, it takes A LOT to get all these different groups, with different areas of interests and practice, all on the same page as one another. This doesn't even include all the international societies that have released joint statements such as this.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/ssi/climate-change-statement-from.pdf

 

[2006]

There are MOUNTAINS of evidence showing that humans are the primary cause of global climate change (not just global warming).

No there is not or you would have referenced it. It's speculation that cannot be confirmed and it p*sses you guys off to no end that you can't prove it.

Boasting that you are a scientist in no way bolsters your argument. Hell I am sure there quite a few mathematicians that don't know dick about the environment but they are scientists.

For those of you with even a fragment of open-mindedness this even handed article might be of interest.

I also think it is amusing that the term global warming has conveniently been morphed into climate change. Why? Because the planet has actually cooled this decade. Can't call it global warming when the planet is cooling now can we? That is called politics!

 

[Bifferwine]

The planet hasn't cooled this decade. That's flat out wrong. The 90s and now the 2000s have been the hottest decades on record. Where are you even getting your information from?

"NASA Research Finds Last Decade was Warmest on Record"
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/jan/HQ_10-017_Warmest_temps.html

It has morphed from "global warming" to "global climate change" to incorporate ALL the climate changes that take place -- not just global warming. But increase in droughts, disruption to ocean currents, increase in number and intensity of tropical storms and hurricanes, ocean acidification, etc. None of that is warming per se, but is still a result of the phenomenon.

Nowhere was I "boasting" that I was a scientist. I stated that I was. There is a difference between the two. This was to clear things up because people were saying what "scientists think". I stated that I was a scientist because I have spent years and years researching this stuff, looking at all sides of the issues, and even wrote portions of one of my master's theses on it. I do have background and experience in this topic that your average person does not, and that is worth disclosing.

It's like me trying to explain to an expert in Russian history how things went down during the Russian Revolution. I think I would defer to his experience before challenging his years of research based on stuff I have seen on the news.

 

[adambirk]

please post to me where the planet is in a cooling phase right now? i would love to see your information on this as well.

the infomation you posted was just a news report blog. this is not data nor was data sited. just opinions from different sides of a story.

please look up the history on the glaciers of greenland. they are shrinking at an alarming rate. faster and farther than ever before. is this because we are in a cooling phase?

or how about data i have seen personally. being an avid ice angler here in michigan i can tell you that over the last decade ice prodution in the winter has been less and less every year. ten years ago it was not uncommon to see 2.5 to 3 feet on all lakes we fished. now if there is a 1.5 feet of ice on a lake that is alot. so i do see its affects every year and keep seeing them.

there are cycles of the earth that scientist fully dont understand and probably never will. if there is no problem with global warming and there is nothing wrong than why such the big push to look into other means of power? please explain this to me. becasue if there is nothing wrong then why do we look into hydrogen power, why is ther more wind turbines going up than ever before.


the greenhouse gasses released by the earth that controlled the cycles of heating and cooling phases throughout the life of the earth have been kicked into overdrive. by US HUMANS!!! i do not see the wildlife burning coal or driving cars or any of the other fuels burned and released.

right now it is 87 degrees in northern michigan. average temp this time of year??????

65 to 72 degrees!!!!! nice cooling trend.

another cooling trend. water temp in the ssaint marys river conecting 2 of our great lakes has had the highest surface water temps recorded in the last decade. must be that cooling trend.

-adam

 

[savageAJC]

well, the way i see it....more humans = more pollution= more heat= more killing of animals/loss of natural habitat=etc. etc. eventually end of earth =)

of course humans cause harm to the earth, were only getting lazier/ obese/ more $$ driven etc... humans are on a downward spiral, and while being on top of chain we take all else down with us lol just IMO dont get offended or anything by it =) i type this as my tv, xbox, cpu, and many lights are on in the house... hmm and i also need to put gas in my car! just wait until them aliens come and start harvesting us.. we'll be balanced soon =p

ibtl

 

[sillygoose]

Wow - I didn't mean to get us all started on climate change. Being a biochemist who has worked for a water resources consulting firm for over 20 years, I too have seen pretty compelling data supporting human contribution to climate change. And trust me, our clients are certainly not tree-huggers but need to know things to plan strategically for development, mines, etc. They are pragmatists.

Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." The same can be said about things our political views depend upon. Unfortunately, there are always political overtones even among friends. So instead:

If anyone is interested in learning more about "The Cove", you can visit http://www.thecovemovie.com/. I will throw in a disclaimer here - I haven't read the site yet but that may be tonight's project - after I'm done fooling with my tank. :fish1:

 

[aquaph8]

Im watching the movie right now. Just had to pause it and put the kids bed before it get as graphic as I think its gonna get. That Rick Obarry guy is my new hero.

 

[savageAJC]

^ lol

 

[aquaph8]

Alright, I just finished watching it. Pretty messed up stuff. Im glad my daughter was sleeping during the end.

 

[2006]

The planet hasn't cooled this decade. That's flat out wrong.

Poorly worded by me. I should have said the rate of warming has decreased.

Ok back on topic well at least more related to this thread then global warming. Anybody watch whale wars?

 

[Bifferwine]

Don't mean to get off track again, and I don't think this warrants any further discussion, but I just saw this and thought it was worth sharing.

Noted anti-global-warming scientist reverses course

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...anti-global-warming-scientist-reverses-course

This guy is probably the most famous of the "climate change" doubters and has written several books on it... Now he has changed his mind, apparently.

Back on track, though...

I've never seen Whale Wars (I don't have cable), but among my friends, feelings seem to be mixed on it. Some people think they're ecoterrorists. Some people think they're heroes.