The ecological impacts of our addiction

I'm familiar with how that works. The fact that there is a connection doesn't mean anything about where the nutrients end up though. The fact that the water doesn't just flow straight from the Everglades onto the reefs is a huge part of why the nutrients aren't getting there. They have to pass through miles of mangroves and sea grass before they ever get to the reefs. Even in areas of the keys that have sewage wells that percolate straight out to the reefs the water is back to oligotrophic levels within about 500 yards of the source and even there, the main source of P is upwelling from offshore, not the sewage. Everglades pollution making it out to the reefs in the Keys in significant amounts still remains to be demonstrated.

Just take a look at where the actual reefs are in the Keys. Notice that the reefs never formed on the bay side of the islands or very extensively in the middle keys where there are lots of large passes for bay water to come through. That's because that water has always been bad news for the reefs. For the last 5,000 years since the reefs formed they've been periodically knocked back by inimical water from the bay without any help from pollution. They only formed where they were sheltered from the water in the first place. You see the same pattern on Andros Island in the Bahamas.

The loss of the reefs in the Keys doesn't seem to have any historical precedence, and man-made causes are definitely contributing. However, even though runoff from the Glades seems like a common sense cause, things generally aren't that simple. It makes a good story, but it's hard to make a compelling case for it based on the real-world research.
 
This is a great question - IMHO it is a double edged sword, for a few reasons:
Even if you go - captive bread, frag only - you are buying consumables that are adding to pollution, ecological destruction etc

on the flip side, if no one did anything, species may be lost forever and people otherwise ignorant (like i was) would never know what they are destroying.

there is more to the question than just fish and corals - i.e energy consumption is huge!

so here is my take:

be as responsible as possible, support aquaculture, frag and share, educate those that don’t know IF THEY ASK, if not, post in places like this to give an opinion, not a lecture - in my experience no-one likes a lecture. Support green energy, i pay a monthly fee to my power company to support green energy. And finally, don’t support LFS that stock exotic, rare species, it all starts with grass roots movement - no one is perfect, and we are not right all the time, but so long as you do things with the best intentions and try, then it will all turn out in the wash.

I also think that maybe we should all donate our ashes to artificial reefs (Google it) - and support a reef restoration project somewhere, anyone who knows some good ones - post them
here.
 
don't know about percentage, but i must say that i made a decision to only acquire tank-bred animals and corals, so if i believe my fellow reefers and LFS, everything i have is tank bred! of course with the exception of the live rock, but that's broken up from storms and such......i'm told!
 
This is part of our larger issue: Humanity has no long term plan for its impact on the earth. We only get bigger every year. Something has to give.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10529604#post10529604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Elliott
does anyone have an idea what percentage of livestock in our tanks are aquacultured?

The best estimate I've seen is 1-10% aquacultured for both fish and coral. I can't remember the name of the report right now, but it was from 2003. However, those numbers are based on import/export numbers and do not include fragging by local hobbyists. There is currently another large report in peer review right now that says the coral numbers are up around 15% now with the large mariculture operations producing now (Walt Smith?).

I would GUESS that fragging adds another 5-10% of aquacultured onto the corals, but there is no good way to track fragging.

Regardless of fragging, aquaculture is rising, but is still a very low percentage of the animals in our tanks. A great many of the fish and mobile invertebrates in our tanks are still 100% wild caught as we know nothing, or next to nothing, about their reproduction.

Brian
 
thank you Brian, very good to know. I hope the percentage of aquacultured livestock continues to grow and eventually surpasses that caught from the wild.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9766141#post9766141 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AJtheReefer
I think the most important contribution of our hobby is the ecological awareness gained by the hobbyist. And hopefully this makes us more responsible with the environment, especially outside the sea.

I don't think this hobby is environment friendly, nor I think it would ever be. I have accepted this.

With that said, we can minimize the impact. By trading frags, buying tank raised stock, etc.

I agree completely with all these points. It's impossible to pretend that this is a green hobby. How much energy do you put into your system, pumps, lighting, etc?
How much water do you waste when you make RO water? Hopefully you have it going into a greywater system or into a clothes or dishwasher.
How much energy goes into transporting those animals from the pacific islands to your home in the middle of the US?

And those questions don't even address the environmental impacts at the level of the reef itself.

I definitely agree that ecological and environmental awareness are definitely the biggest benefits of the hobby, along with education of others who come over and are interested in what you have.

On the positive side, there is a school of thought that in some areas, where they're working to use sustainable reef fish collecting practices, they've realized that the reef is worth more healthy than dead, and so try to mininmize commercial fishing and development, which are both more damaging than our hobby. If the hobby goes away, so does any reason to continue to protect those reefs.

Aquaculturing is definitely the way we have to go longterm. I think there is a lot available aquacultured. In our current tanks, everything is aquacultured/tank-raised except about 5# of LR that we seeded with (and you could easily argue that this is still not enough).

One problem is to get the kind of people who aren't reading threads in Responsible Reefkeeping to jump onto the aquaculture bandwagon. For almost everyone, if you ask them if, all other things being equal, they would rather have wild-caught or aquacultured, they'll choose the latter. If you ask them if they'd be willing to pay more for aquaculture, fewer, but still most people say yes. But then they get to the store, and when it comes down to it, most people end up going with the cheaper option. I've seen people pass by a tank of locally raised perculas to get the cheaper wild-caught ones in the next tank. The people at the LFS say this happens all the time. They'll often go through all of their WC ones before people will by the locally raised ones. Until you get that attitude to shift (and I think it is very, very slowly shifting), this hobby will continue to do significant damage to the wild ecosystems.

Dave
 
Wolverine: yes, there is no doubt this hobby falls way short of being "green" and probably always will. However the degree to which it falls short can be improved upon, I think significantly. Successful reefkeeping requires a greater understanding from the Hobbyist and hopefully with that will come a greater appreciation of this delicate resource. Judging by the growth of RC lately it appears a greater number of Hobbyist's are eager to learn more.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10593241#post10593241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Elliott
Wolverine: yes, there is no doubt this hobby falls way short of being "green" and probably always will. However the degree to which it falls short can be improved upon, I think significantly. Successful reefkeeping requires a greater understanding from the Hobbyist and hopefully with that will come a greater appreciation of this delicate resource. Judging by the growth of RC lately it appears a greater number of Hobbyist's are eager to learn more.

There are definitely a number of ways the hobby can be a lot more green, many of which have already been discussed in this forum.

One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that the average hobbyist only stays in the hobby about a year and rarely goes online. It is this group of hobbyists that buys just about anything and doesn't take the time to read up on how to do things properly. They don't understand aquaculture is important and that people can even raise things in captivity. A large percentage of the mortality of wild caught animals is this uniformed group of hobbyists that want a "pet Nemo" that give up when everything in their tanks "mysteriously" dies. Getting this rapidly overturning group of people educated about the declining health of coral reefs is one of the biggest challenges to slowing the damage from the hobby.

Not saying this is the biggest problem, there are many things many groups of people can do, but this problem is not mentioned as often.

Brian
 
Hypocricy

Hypocricy

let's be pragmatic...

The marine ornamental trade is - in essence - a for-profit exploitation of a priceless natural resource to feed the superficial whims of consumer masses. We should not fool ourselves into thinking there is anything 'good' about this trade from the perspective of natural habitats.

Education is not a justifiable excuse for supporting the trade. There are plenty of less destructive sources of awareness like public aquariums, documentaries on television, etc.

Businesses involved in the trade are there for profit, not ethics. At the end of the day, business owners will exploit reef life to pay the rent, period. Many of them have to live in denial because they might have difficulty looking in the mirror if they chose to face the inconvenient realities of their chosen profession. No amount of denial, deception, or misinformation changes this reality.

we are all hypocrites by merely participating and supporting the marine ornamental trade. Humans often claim to cherish or value things when in reality they wish to possess and consequently exploit. The very least we can do is show our peers and the businesses we frequent that trade reform and sustainability are a high priority.

If the number of animals killed by this trade was an instantly updated number on the internet(that's an idea) we would all have trouble looking in the mirror and talking about the next fish or coral we can't wait to consume.

I myself have killed countless animals since my first salt water tank was set up in 1983. In 2005 I experienced a shift in perspective that has lead me to step back. I have not bought any reef life in a few years now, and cannot see doing so until I find a way to do it more responsibly, and in a way that gives back to the natural habitats we claim to cherish but obviously exploit.

Conservation and sustainability should be much more prominent subjects. Wouldn't it be better if your LFS was honest about its impact and chose to devote a portion of profits directly towards reef conservation efforts?

Every time you hit that checkout counter at the LFS or the checkout page on the internet, remind yourself of the uncomfortable realities of your behavior.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10594556#post10594556 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianPlankis
One of the biggest problems in this hobby is that the average hobbyist only stays in the hobby about a year and rarely goes online. It is this group of hobbyists that buys just about anything and doesn't take the time to read up on how to do things properly. They don't understand aquaculture is important and that people can even raise things in captivity. A large percentage of the mortality of wild caught animals is this uniformed group of hobbyists that want a "pet Nemo" that give up when everything in their tanks "mysteriously" dies. Getting this rapidly overturning group of people educated about the declining health of coral reefs is one of the biggest challenges to slowing the damage from the hobby.
Brian

true.

Again, don't think for one second that the LFS's don't know this and take advantage of it. The vast majority of hobbyists dive in too deep too fast, kill plenty of reef life, then leave the hobby when lifestyle changes make it inconvenient. The LFS profits from the cycle, and the reefs suffer. It's extremely unfortunate that online resources and self-education is not promoted by most LFS's. Unfortunately an educated consumer is harder to profit from...imo every checkout counter should have a sign posted that points customers to online education resources, and every purchase should include a flier (printed on recycled paper with soy-based ink) that does the same.
 
I live on the Rock river about 8 miles from where it pours into the Mississippi.I have been a trapper,hunter,and sport fisherman since i was 8 years old.When i was 21 i moved to the Florida Keys and returned to the house i grew up in when i was 25 (4 years later).While i was in the Keys i became addicted to the reef.I became a certified diver.I then started working part time for a commercial fisherman who lived across the road.One day I dived up 450 lobsters!I became very good at it. Over the 4 years that i was there i seen the rapid disapperence of live corals that were close to shore.
Here in IL with its mass agricultar and the diking off of the rivers on top of the commercial use of the rivers(cooling Nuke plants exc.)I can say that the pollution is caused by the population of people combined with greed,politics,and the i dont care i dont live in the river attitude.Farmers run the state of ILLinios and IOwa politicaly and Until this bunch is over powered they will continue to build levys and farm right up to the river banks.Buffers need to be between the rivers and the agricultar and every biologist know's it!!!The poisin in the American river systems is a complete disrespect for this land.
To the person who says hunters are the reason there is more deer today than there have ever been.You are dead wrong.We have changed the enviroment and have put in a false food supply called corn,beens,ext.that the deer eat with no end in sight of the supply.Thats why there are so many deer.Hunters are the biggest fighters for the cleaning of the land and the protection of wet lands.Commercial fisherman on the other hand dont share this aspect with there land hunting co-parts.Its all about the money.
 
I personally justify my hobby by learning as much as I can from it, then trying to propagate as much as possible. I want to end up in a career in Conservation and or Coral/ Fish Aquaculture so this hands on experience is very important. I think it is important to find alternate livestock choices and as the demand rises the production will go up until it becomes cheaper to buy tank raised.
 
while i agree that the removal of livestock from our coral reefs for our personal pleasure is far from ok, i think we tend to overlook the other aspects of our hobby that are much more detrimental to the ecosystem as a whole.

the death and bleaching of international reefs is not caused by the removal of individual specimens from the natural habitat. It is caused by the removal of a viable habitat from those creatures. Each year the oceans grow more acidic, get warmer and warmer, and are filled with pollutions ranging from toxic compounds to detrimental food sources such as phosphate, nitrates, and iron, ect.

Ever watched what happens in your reef tank when your temperature skyrockets? What about when your ph drops? How about when you pour some po4 in for fun? It's the environment that is the major issue concerning natural coral reefs.

So then it must be ok to have a reef tank then huh?
well no, we must take a look at the other aspects of reef keeping, and realize their impact, both terrestrial and under-water.

First that comes to mind for me is the amount of garbage produced by the transport of our favorite water loving friends. I worked at an LFS some time ago. The thing that always stood out to me was how we were the only business in the entire little strip mall that could produce an entire trash dumpster full of garbage in a day. All it took was one single order to arrive and we would fill it to overflowing, while the other businesses combined over the course of a week filled it maybe halfway.

When a new order of livestock comes in, the creature is stored in water, wrapped in 3 bags, clipped with a metal clip, these bags are all put into a larger bag with disposable heat packs, then put into a Styrofoam box, then into another bag, finally to be wrapped up in a cardboard box covered in plastic tape. That only gets the fish between the whosaler and the retailer, that process is repeated when someone mail orders the livestock from the store. On top of that is the amount of carbon and pollution produced by the transport of or friends(usually in a plane, one of the highest polluting methods of travel) to the store and ultimately our homes.

By buying domestically raised fish and locally propagated corals, we cut down both on the amount of plastic and packaging used, the amount of fuel used in transport, as well as reduce the demand for wild caught livestock.

But what about that other stuff, have you ever considered how much energy was wasted and how much carbon released to make that glass tank of yours? trucking silica sand to factories to heat it to thousands of degrees. How about the amount of fuel required to transport that heavy, large box of glass to your house?

What about reef salt? the enviromental impact of mining and processing/purifying the different compounds such as magnesium, strontium, ect. Plus the emissions of transporting the heavy, thick plastic buckets full of the stuff across the country to our homes, only to pour it down the drain.

How about the hundreds of additives we are sold, produced in polluting factories, transported to our houses, and in the end, poured down the drain in our frequent water changes.

Then there is the issues with the electrical consumption of hundreds of watts of metal halides with thousands of watts in pumps, skimmers and assessories running 24/7. The thousands of gallons of waste water from our ro units. The waste produced by changing those filters every 6 months and throwing out the old ones.

Or calcium reactors. ever wonder how they make the co2 in your canisters? and no, they don't take it out of the atmosphere like you would expect, it's made through chemical processes which result in the net quantity of carbon in the atmosphere to increase.

I myself keep a reef tank, though a small one, and have no misconceptions about the impact i am having. I believe the important thing i to be aware of exactly what we are doing, minimize our impact where possible, and trying to educate others on the actual impacts. Too often i hear people who just don't have a clue about the impact of their actions.

@reefbuddha:
i agree wholeheartedly with you. For the most part, the LFS if a bigger part of the problem than the solution. when i worked at the LFS (considered one of the more environmentally friendly in the area) i was shocked at some of the advice that they give and the practices they promote. One customer would come in and buy the largest, rarest, and most expensive fish every week - copperbands, moorish idols, rare angels, ect, and every week he would come back, telling the tale of what had died and wondering what interesting thing was available for him this week. Never once did i hear someone tell him to slow down, sort out the problem first. Try smaller, hardier fish, no, they just sold him more and more and more and more. With other customers they would push the hermit crab/snail CUC packages, when the customer comes back a couple weeks later looking to replace the snails that had mysteriously died, they are just sold another batch of new ones. most are never made aware that their hermit crabs are predators of snails, and when you keep 10 hermits in a 10 gallon, buying snails is essentially a waste of money and living creatures.

So am i going to give up my reef tank and become a hippy after all this doom and gloom? No, i love my hobby and also realize the solution to our environmental problem is going to come from new, creative solutions, not from reducing our consumption or buying and selling carbon credits.

In the meantime, us reefers do have many options to lessen our individual impacts on our dying, and disappearing natural environment. I myself choose to buy only locally fragged corals, and aquacultured fishes. i use my ro runoff to water my many houseplants. I keep my tank understocked to reduce the number of water changes i do. I choose to not use chemical buffers and additives and am moving away from the energy intense style of reef keeping, to a more natural style with RDSB's, fuges, and algeal nutrient export. Plus, i live in BC which gives me the peace of mind knowing that most of the power used in my tank if produced via hydro-dams.
 
Great thread!

I'd like to see every hobbyist make at least 1 environmental sustaining choice in their FS/Reef tank.

I'll do my part and have a 70/30 ish ratio of captive/wild

I'm not sure what our impact is... it impacts to some percentage but the major impactor is all the other industries/pollutants the reefs have to bear.

/sigh
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11214857#post11214857 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrissreef
Great thread!

I'd like to see every hobbyist make at least 1 environmental sustaining choice in their FS/Reef tank.

I'll do my part and have a 70/30 ish ratio of captive/wild

I'm not sure what our impact is... it impacts to some percentage but the major impactor is all the other industries/pollutants the reefs have to bear.

/sigh
Who gets to pick the parts? Yours seems awfully small, how do you know it even helps?
 
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