The Elegance Coral Project
- Thread starter EricHugo
- Start date
StoneRhino
New member
Awsome, it looks like you are really going to solve this puzzle no matter what it takes. Never thought about putting the medication in foods for intake. Seems like a better methode to me. What do I know though.
LOL. Eventually.
fwiw, the anti-parasitic and the Lugol's treated pieces have died - looked terrible after 36 hours. All antibiotic treated fragments and the untreated fragment all look the same....and that is to say, unchanged and probably terminal. I will retreat tomorrow morning.
In more bad news and as I suspected, the other two corals purchased are also now affected and have to be fixed. Long and short of it - still no whole healthy colony in this study save the fragment I have sent in to the IRCP lab.
So, I would still very much be in need of a healthy whole elegance coral for this study.
fwiw, the anti-parasitic and the Lugol's treated pieces have died - looked terrible after 36 hours. All antibiotic treated fragments and the untreated fragment all look the same....and that is to say, unchanged and probably terminal. I will retreat tomorrow morning.
In more bad news and as I suspected, the other two corals purchased are also now affected and have to be fixed. Long and short of it - still no whole healthy colony in this study save the fragment I have sent in to the IRCP lab.
So, I would still very much be in need of a healthy whole elegance coral for this study.
John Kelly
Goniopora Aficionado
What does Elegance contain within its tissue/skeletal structure that makes it different from other corals in the same family?
John Kelly
Goniopora Aficionado
Is it known if there are any other LPS corals from the same family that are affected when put in the same tank with a diseased Elegance?
I have looked for this, and have not really found any with the possible...and I do mean only possible exception of Euphyllia. I have not done anything remotely considered a controlled test of this and in most cases where I have had to hold sick elegance in mixed coral tanks I have seen no other responses, not even of irritation or contraction, in other species, nor in observing dealer tanks holding sick elegance (except in some stores where everthing in the tank is dying....but that's because of the tank or dealer, not the elegance coral).
John Kelly
Goniopora Aficionado
Interesting...Thanks Eric.
StoneRhino
New member
Eric, I was wondering if you too have seen a rare occurance that I have seen at my LFS and a small wholesaler in my region. My LFS has a 175 gallon show tank with a "magic" touch. Every elegance coral they stick in that tank will do very well with what seems to be a zero mortalilty rate. Even Sick elegance corals from my friends and myself and others the store mentioned put the affected elegances in there tank and within a week they are no long showing the dieased look and turn around to be very beautiful corals. Corals that they turn around and and then sell again become aflicated with the same dieased signs. I don't get it at all. It makes no sense whatsoever. They now currently have six beautiful elegances along the bottom of the tank most have been there for more than 6 months. They come and go after they have been there a long time and people think they are healthy. Then they die within a couple of months in the customers tanks unless brought back to the store and put back into thier display.
This might seem crazy but there other tanks in the store where they sell and keep corals for sale. Those tanks will take out an elegance in about 1 to 2 months with the sick looking puffy signs or white mucus. Where as if they take one of those dying elegances and put it into their show tank it does a 180 and looks awsome.
The small wholesaler in my town has a personal tank which has says has the same "magic" touch. He says almost every elegance he puts in his personal home tank will do awsome and grow. I have a frag of a ugly elegance that he gave me all brown and it is doing well in my frag tank.
Have you come across something like this in your vast travels?
Also has anyone that is a diver thats gets to go diving in an area that hosts elegance corals. Have they ever brought a sick looking bunch of elegaces that we might fairly say they are going to perish of the diease put them back into the ocean/sea grass muddy lagoon, and see if they recover. Does the ocean have a magic "touch" to?
Seemed to me like a good idea!
Sorry for the spelling and grammer mistakes.
This might seem crazy but there other tanks in the store where they sell and keep corals for sale. Those tanks will take out an elegance in about 1 to 2 months with the sick looking puffy signs or white mucus. Where as if they take one of those dying elegances and put it into their show tank it does a 180 and looks awsome.
The small wholesaler in my town has a personal tank which has says has the same "magic" touch. He says almost every elegance he puts in his personal home tank will do awsome and grow. I have a frag of a ugly elegance that he gave me all brown and it is doing well in my frag tank.
Have you come across something like this in your vast travels?
Also has anyone that is a diver thats gets to go diving in an area that hosts elegance corals. Have they ever brought a sick looking bunch of elegaces that we might fairly say they are going to perish of the diease put them back into the ocean/sea grass muddy lagoon, and see if they recover. Does the ocean have a magic "touch" to?
Seemed to me like a good idea!
Sorry for the spelling and grammer mistakes.
Greg Hiller
New member
FWIW, I just picked up an elegance at a local shop about one week ago. It had only been in the shop for a few hours but looked excellent. I've tried elegance twice before (about 7 years back) and failed both times, having the typical regression mentioned in this thread. This time around I treated as per Julian's recommended antibiotic (nitrofurazone or doxycycline for 4-5 days) treatment immediately upon getting the coral home. I put it in a 2 gallon aquarium with nothing but an air bubbler and some light on the tank. I dosed with some old Spectrogram that I had (5 years expired!). Spectrogram is an antibiotic blend of nitrofurazone and kanamycin which I'm afraid may not be for sale anymore. I know I've seen nitrofurazone for sale by itself still by mailorder petsores. I used it at the dose recommended to treat fish, one tablet per 10 gallons. I dosed 1X/day and performed a 100% water change on the tank 1X/day. Treatment period was for 4 days. The coral seemed to tolerate the treatment very well. Looked healthy, and expanded every day even in the 2 gallon tank with ABX. It did expell some zooxanthellae while in the 2 gallon tank, but it could have been just adjusting to light levels.
It's been out of the ABX for about 4 days now and still looks fantastic at the moment, but I'll get back to you in 4 months or so. I fed it some shrimp last night and it seem to take it in. I know none of the above proves anything except that the coral tolerated the ABX well, but I did not want to kill my 3rd elegance so I'm taking no chances. I've treated a open brain once before that was undergoing a slow recession with neomycin, and the recession was stopped cold (2 days of treatment in a similar manner to that I described for the elegance).
If the elegance does well perhaps I'll frag it and send one off to your project.
It's been out of the ABX for about 4 days now and still looks fantastic at the moment, but I'll get back to you in 4 months or so. I fed it some shrimp last night and it seem to take it in. I know none of the above proves anything except that the coral tolerated the ABX well, but I did not want to kill my 3rd elegance so I'm taking no chances. I've treated a open brain once before that was undergoing a slow recession with neomycin, and the recession was stopped cold (2 days of treatment in a similar manner to that I described for the elegance).
If the elegance does well perhaps I'll frag it and send one off to your project.
dragon_slayer
In Memoriam
EricHugo said:
i'd be happy to help out best i can with pics of mine, but i'm a bit hesitant to send any tissue currently. it's IMO very healthy and has dropped a few babies once and a while and opens fully every day. it's been in my system for about 4 yrs now and is currently 15x17 inches. about 6 months ago it was moved from one system to another and fully reopened in a 5g bucket in sunlight while it was being transported (a 30 min drive that it seamed to love) and fully expanded again within minuets of introduction to the new system. it gets feedings of silversides when i can think to do so and i'm sure it catches some of the meaty foods i feed the tank. below are a few pics i just snapped. if it seams to be one you'd like some detailed pictures of let me know and i'll do all i can to help out there.
kc
Greg:
Interesting observations. I also did the nitrofurazone treatment and it killed the coral within 24 hours - I did that to save my own helathy one that became infected by the sick one (many posts back at the beginning of the study). I picked up 587 histoslides of 69 sick elegance corals this weekend, and will start looking at them this week. Both Kathy and Esther Peters want to discuss them with me. I also took a live coral with me, and we sectioned it there, some for glutaraldegyde fixation and then electron microscopy work. If yours survives, I would love a fragment. I also gave her the control and antibiotic treated corals mentioned above and she will get to work on those, as well.
Dragonslayer, a bud, if you could afford it, would be a most welcome addition. Nice elegance. I wish mine would drop buds so I could contribute some of mine, but am holding off for now for fear I will never have another.
As for the store story, I would very much like to have their contact information.
Interesting observations. I also did the nitrofurazone treatment and it killed the coral within 24 hours - I did that to save my own helathy one that became infected by the sick one (many posts back at the beginning of the study). I picked up 587 histoslides of 69 sick elegance corals this weekend, and will start looking at them this week. Both Kathy and Esther Peters want to discuss them with me. I also took a live coral with me, and we sectioned it there, some for glutaraldegyde fixation and then electron microscopy work. If yours survives, I would love a fragment. I also gave her the control and antibiotic treated corals mentioned above and she will get to work on those, as well.
Dragonslayer, a bud, if you could afford it, would be a most welcome addition. Nice elegance. I wish mine would drop buds so I could contribute some of mine, but am holding off for now for fear I will never have another.
As for the store story, I would very much like to have their contact information.
dragon_slayer
In Memoriam
i'll see what i can do.
kc
kc
dragon_slayer
In Memoriam
Enterprise.
kc
kc
StoneRhino
New member
Eric,
I think it was me you asked the contact information of my LFS. I thought maybe since the guy is cool and all he be happy to talk to you about his show tank and it's "magic" touch with elegances. So I asked him If I could have his personal contact information and that I would PM the information to you so you guys could talk. Right away he got mad at me I have no idea why. I told him how important it is that we learn why his tank can keep any elegance alive. He is not interested in talking or helping at all. Anyways since he rude to me I will post what I can hear in public. I knew the guy was wierd as I have seen him get mad for nothing before but not with me.
Big Als
521 Bryne Drive
Barrie, Ontario
(705) 733 8898
I hope that helps Eric. I have not talked to the wholesaller in my region yet but when I do maybe he will want to talk to you.
Seriously though there has to be something different about thier show tank that can keep these elegances alive.
I think it was me you asked the contact information of my LFS. I thought maybe since the guy is cool and all he be happy to talk to you about his show tank and it's "magic" touch with elegances. So I asked him If I could have his personal contact information and that I would PM the information to you so you guys could talk. Right away he got mad at me I have no idea why. I told him how important it is that we learn why his tank can keep any elegance alive. He is not interested in talking or helping at all. Anyways since he rude to me I will post what I can hear in public. I knew the guy was wierd as I have seen him get mad for nothing before but not with me.
Big Als
521 Bryne Drive
Barrie, Ontario
(705) 733 8898
I hope that helps Eric. I have not talked to the wholesaller in my region yet but when I do maybe he will want to talk to you.
Seriously though there has to be something different about thier show tank that can keep these elegances alive.
Blue Baron
New member
Yeah, my guess is that "magic touch" is what he's using to advertise his store.
I too have a coral elegance, purchased from Blue Sierra in Issaquah, Washington. It was BEAUTIFUL bright green, nice size. It started to display the same symptoms. My wife and I read somewhere that these corals are generally found in silty areas amongst sea grass where they're probably not getting high light, and the water quality is less than perfect.
So we moved the coral further down in the tank, and somewhat in the shadow of a rock outcrop. To our pleasure, it started to recover! For about two days. Now it's looking just as bad as ever. We're getting ready to move everything into our new 120 gallon tank (from the 55 we currently have), and it will move too, providing it's still alive.
What was quite interesting was the LFS claimed that this particular coral just wasn't selling, and he had no idea why. Yeah, right. I'll bet he was happy as hell that this coral walked out with a $110 price tag on it. Sigh.
I too have a coral elegance, purchased from Blue Sierra in Issaquah, Washington. It was BEAUTIFUL bright green, nice size. It started to display the same symptoms. My wife and I read somewhere that these corals are generally found in silty areas amongst sea grass where they're probably not getting high light, and the water quality is less than perfect.
So we moved the coral further down in the tank, and somewhat in the shadow of a rock outcrop. To our pleasure, it started to recover! For about two days. Now it's looking just as bad as ever. We're getting ready to move everything into our new 120 gallon tank (from the 55 we currently have), and it will move too, providing it's still alive.
What was quite interesting was the LFS claimed that this particular coral just wasn't selling, and he had no idea why. Yeah, right. I'll bet he was happy as hell that this coral walked out with a $110 price tag on it. Sigh.
My experience:
I bought mine from a brand new Reef store, hoping that if it wass a contagious pathogen, the store might be more likely to be "disease" free.
It did good for a few months then slowly stopped extending much. It began receeded after the 7 month point or so. By 10 months it was gone. The half of it that was in the shade happened stayed healthier longer.
The first batch of elegance that this store got survived longer than the elegances which it got thereafter.
Chris
I bought mine from a brand new Reef store, hoping that if it wass a contagious pathogen, the store might be more likely to be "disease" free.
It did good for a few months then slowly stopped extending much. It began receeded after the 7 month point or so. By 10 months it was gone. The half of it that was in the shade happened stayed healthier longer.
The first batch of elegance that this store got survived longer than the elegances which it got thereafter.
Chris
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