The Elegance Coral Project

[Herpervet]

Oops! I said 37g needle instead of 27g.

Eric: I guess HerpeSvet was a typo. Sorry no chancres here.

 

[sihaya]

Doubtful it would fix anything and "Above all else do not harm your patient"

Well, if the problem is that the fungus infects the skeleton and that's why it can't be treated, then removing the skeleton might make some sense.

But I don't know how often elegances recalcify. I don't know how resilient they are to losing their skeletons.

If someone wants to donate a healthy elegance I can staple off a large section of polyp using a TA 90 stapling device.

Why would you want to do this to a healthy elegance? To frag it?

 

[sihaya]

You could also do the same thing directly into the polyp if using a 37 to 30g needle the trauma would be minimal.

You mean through the polyp and into the skeleton? Or just into the body of the coral?

 

[Herpervet]

Well, if the problem is that the fungus infects the skeleton and that's why it can't be treated, then removing the skeleton might make some sense.

But I don't know how often elegances recalcify. I don't know how resilient they are to losing their skeletons.

Why would you want to do this to a healthy elegance? To frag it?

You asked about surgically removing the polyp as a possible solution and this is a way that it MIGHT be accomplished.

Why do it to a healthy coral? It doesn't appear there are but very few non-infected corals so it would be likely that the "healthy" one is actually infected.

Secondly, if it is actually a non-infected coral and it doesn't work then its unlikely to work in a diseased coral imo.
Of course we are talking about a N of 1 so any result other than complete success would not prove all that much.


In order for something like this to work it would need to be done before the end stage of the disease process.

 

[sihaya]

Ooohh... I see what you are saying. I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to cut through the skeleton with the surgical staples.

 

[poopsko24]

there is no way youre going to remove the animal from the skeleton....without death. no way.

 

[ReefDiver]

I agree. Even if you could somehow induce a "polyp bailout", the coral would not survive for long. There has never been any documented report of a coral "recalcifying" after such an event that I am aware of. The only way to accomplish this is to treat the coral while it still is attached to it's skeletal structure. Hence the reason for Eric's posting a possible treatment protocol. Not sure what the answer will be but I don;t think that it will be an easy solution in any event.

Eric: Hope that you had a great trip to Belize and will fill us in on the details.

 

[dragon_slayer]

........ It doesn't appear there are but very few non-infected corals so it would be likely that the "healthy" one is actually infected. .....

i think i can honestly say mine is defiantly healthy. i'm currently waiting on a bud to drop to send to Eric but the last one that dropped is about 7 months off now and is doing great as well and about doubled in size.

kc

here is the 7 month old bud:

and the 'Mother' as of today:

 

[Herpervet]

Awesome specimen! Certainly one of the survivors. Can you describe what happens when it buds?

If these corals pinch off on their own without attached skeleton then it is plausable that a cutting could be done as described above.

 

[sihaya]

I agree. Even if you could somehow induce a "polyp bailout", the coral would not survive for long. There has never been any documented report of a coral "recalcifying" after such an event that I am aware of.

I believe you, but... it was in Mr. B's book that I read elegances can recalcify after bailout.

 

[dragon_slayer]

Awesome specimen! Certainly one of the survivors. Can you describe what happens when it buds?

If these corals pinch off on their own without attached skeleton then it is plausable that a cutting could be done as described above.

while it may not be technically budding what mine does is form what looks like a 'drip' in the tissue. looks exactly like a big candle where the wax is about to drip from the bottom, this drip gets lower and lower and eventually falls off, the above pictured one had a small CaCO3 fragment along with it. these 'buds', if the corals is disturbed, will retract unfortunately and if undisturbed can take several months to drop.

hth
kc

 

[John75hex]

OK Get ready for this!!!
My Elegance of 1 year and 19 days is now sick. BUT what i am about to say may sound really strange but its true. I had an elegance before the the one i have now. This elegance i'll call #1. #1 lasted 4 months. It truly was an awesome coral always looking great. One day i noticed some of my soft corals and mushrooms not looking so great. I deceided to try to dose some Lugals solution. I put 1 drop into my 75gal in a high flow area. Within SECONDS of dosing the the elegance FREAKED! Swelling its body and retracking it tenticals. It recovered in 2-3 days looking good for 1 or 2 days then all of a sudden it died.
Now onto the elegance i have now( Elegance #2). After 1 year and 19 days of doing great i did something to the tank last night i have never done. I deceided to dose some Kent Marine "Micro-Vert" coral food. I put in 1 and a half cap fulls. To my complete disbelief my elegance FREAKED within seconds, The EXACT way #1 did. I immediatly looked on the bottle to see what was in this stuff. Guesss what, IODINE!! 1mg/oz.
What does this mean...I HAVE NO IDEA, but it has to be a clue. I will let ya know what happens to #2, but I'm sure his days are numbered. I have posted pics of #1 and #2 both sick and healthy in my gallery.

 

[sihaya]

Have you moved it to a QT tank? If you really think it might be the iodine, you could try "flushing" by putting it in a high volumne of new water.

 

[John75hex]

I havent moved it. I did do a water change to try to at least reduce the consentration of iodine. It is still looking terrible.

 

[poopsko24]

John75 I'm sorry to hear about that, I hate when that happens. Those are truley beautiful looking. You might be onto something though. Hang in there.

 

[sihaya]

Not that it's likely relevant... but I saw a parasite on a very healthy looking elegance at a LFS. I convinced the guy there to let me pull it off. It looks like a big skeleton-colored tick (about the size of a pea). Honestly, I'm surprised I was able to see it. It blends in with the skeleton really well. I think it was trying to get under the flesh of the coral.

I don't know what else this could be but a parasitic crab... but it looks nothing like a crab. Here's a pick I drew of it:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/510/98046parasite.JPG

 

[John75hex]

Well, I did another water change earlier today and tonight the elegance does look a little better. Also did some research on iodine and all its forms ( iodide and iodate)today. I didnt understand most of it, just too over my head. The big problem with my theory is there is iodine in all synthitic salt mixes. I just dont understand how it could be iodine but its the only thing in common between the lugals and the Microvert. I wish i could have gotten the reaction from either one on video...literaly seconds from dosing!

 

[Kent E]

Did it look like this?
http://www.melevsreef.com/id/zoo_spider_pycnogonid.jpg

 

[sihaya]

Did it look like this?
http://www.melevsreef.com/id/zoo_spider_pycnogonid.jpg

Nope. But of all the pics of parasites I've seen, I suppose that's the closest. That's not saying much though.

 

[sihaya]

So Dr. Ron says it's some sort of rare arthropod parasite. Apparently they're pretty uncommon. Dr. Ron doesn't even have one so I'm sending it to him.