THE GREAT SKIMMERLESS DEBATE! join on in

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7932160#post7932160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shawnts106
Any updates from anyone else?


I have been running my ASMG2 for some time now and I have had more problems with my euphyllias...

my hammer has completly died. by torch is still not looking like it has before.. and now my frogspawn went through a &*$$@ phase...

I have noticed that my Rainbow montipora is bleaching, and my huge purple polyp neon green base danae is starting to bleach!

Im very unhappy about this and im about to pull the plug for good on this skimmer!!!

I looked at photos of my tank MONTHS AND MONTHS back and it looks 10 times better then than it does now! and I didnt run a skimmer back then! only a fuge.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned the effects of exporting beneficial chemicals such as iodine (among others) with Skimmers.

I don't keep softies and LPS myself but I believe I've read that iodine is beneficial to both softies and long polyped corals.

Just out of curiosity do you dose iodine at all, and do you think that this could have had an adverse effect on your euphyllias sp.

I find it odd that everyone is fixed onthe benifits of skimmers (nutrient removal) and yet don't mention the adverse effects of exporting benifical chemicals and trace elements.

NSW is made up of around 72 elements/chemicals how many of these are beneficial to corals is anyones guess but if skimmers are taking these elements out of the water column it may be having a negative effect on the corals health, it could also explain unwanted algae growth, as some trace elements prohibit some species of algae from running rampant.

I find skimming to be benificial but i also believe too much of a good thing is bad, why not put your skimmer on a timer and have it come on for an hour and off for 3, or something.
 
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Its odd that I've had almost the exact opposite reaction as many others here to the removal of my skimmer. I have a 29 gallon + sump that was being overskimmed by a deltec MCE600. Everything was going pretty well overall, but my skimmer didn't seem to be pulling out the cups of crap others were getting (maybe 1/4 kitchen measuring cup a week) so I figured "why not turn it off and try going skimmerless".

In place of my skimmer I filled the the sump with new live rock and chaeto, and rather than monthly I did bimonthly water changes. Everything seemed okay for the first month, but after that I started to notice things with my SPS. My corals did color up a bit more but eventually just about stopped growing (no longer having lighter colored growth tips) and I started to have problems with red slime algae (I feed only washed frozen foods). After about 3 months of this I started to worry for the survival of my SPS and so I attached a phosban reactor and turned back on the skimmer.

The difference has been astonishing. Everything is growing like made, algae is down, and polyp extension is better. Everything that some have attributed to going skimmerless I have seen when going from skimmerless back to my skimmer.

So what does this all mean? Can you only go skimmerless if you have a large enough tank? Did I not wait long enough to acheive a 'balanced ecosystem?'. I don't really know. Anyone have any ideas?

Oh, and my frogspawn and brain corals showed no reaction to the presence or absense of a skimmer whatsoever.
 
I agree with you here jhelerer, when I turn off the skimmer for more than a couple of days, I get serious negative reactions
 
I don't know if this is any consolation to any of you or not but according to Eric Borneman's article on Reef Keeping magazine titled Reef Food. He suggests that skimmers a way to efficient for our smaller sized tanks and that he even seemed to advocate that dropping the skimmer and doing more water changes would be better along with more regular feedings.

I personally think that skimming along with carbon, regular monthly water changes or even bi-weekly in conjunction with heavier feeding might be the best way to mirror nature. I had no idea that a coral reef get's 3-4 100% water changes a day. That is a lot of fresh water coming in.

Any one else have some thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Bill
 
I usually prefer the expert forums like Dr. Ron and Eric Borneman - their advice is so much more reliable than the highly anecdotal recommendations found elsewhere - but someone told me this was a good discussion, although frankly I'm surprised it's still going on. A few observations to no one in particular:

Why do you want to go skimmerless? If you've already spent the money on a skimmer you won't be saving any by not running it (other than electricity). Is it because you're dissatisfied with your tank as it is currently? If so, what do you hope to accomplish by going skimmerless? Unless you know what you want you'll have a hard time achieving it.

I get really tired of all the skimmer snobs unequivocally proclaiming something can't be done. They brag about how big their skimmer is (you'd think they're trying to compensate for some other... um, shortcoming) or how much "crap it pulls out," and say it's "necessary" if you hope to have a tank as wonderful as theirs or grow "SPS" corals or be cool or whatever. Let me say this: skimmerless is NOT more work; it is NOT more water changes; it is NOT only for experienced reef-keepers to attempt. What IS necessary is some patience and a decent understanding of the science of what's going on in our tanks. You've got to deal with nutrients somehow - how are you going to do it? Live sand and live rock? A refugium? Macroalgae and other harvestables? Water changes? Carbon? What are you going to do about algae when it grows, and what if your snails won't eat it? How will you ensure O2 remains adequate?

When I wanted to start a reef tank I was told it would be a minimum of $2,000 just to get started. Well, I'm cheap, especially when it comes to spending on a "hobby." So I kept reading everything I could find and as my knowledge and understanding increased, I began to see comments that skimmers weren't absolutely necessary - and usually those people were flamed immediately for such heresy. But then I read a great article by Eric Borneman, and I realized that maybe this skimmerless talk isn't so much nonsense. Plus, the tank he described sounded a lot like what I wanted to do - lot's of interesting life, not just another "coral garden." Then I found other threads where he discussed how to go skimmerless (2004 thread, 2001 thread). I read other articles, like Dr. Ron's article on sandbeds and refugiums and Borneman's "Mything the Point" (specifically #15) and I started to understand how it might work. It hasn't been perfect, and I've had to learn quite a few things in the last 2 years, but it's been a lot of fun and very interesting, and that's what I wanted. When I get tired of learning from my tank it'll be time to find a new hobby.

But don't just take my word for it - READ the articles and then THINK for yourself. And then if you still want to try skimmerless you'll have a better understanding of ways to deal with the nutrients.

I think it's much more rewarding.

John
 
You (shawnts) think your skimmer caused corals to bleach or die??????? If you change your skimmer you are going to inevitably change nutrient levels, oxygen levels, quite possibly ph levels etc etc.....i can assure you that the actual having a skimmer did not cause your corals death or bleaching.......you should look to other aspects like nitrates, phosphates, ph, alk(especially alk) and you will likely see a swing....whatever you do keep it constantt pick one way and you wont see problems either way...no matter what you do you are fine...just dont change it often and think it was one particular method of husbandry that caused(rather switching between the two)


Good idea, I will check those things out...

I think that adding the skimmer and having it change things so much in my reef caused the corals to get angry...

My hammer completly died.... And my rainbow is white.. Im worried.
 
Honestly this subject is SO simple! Theres very few equations to skimming or non skimming.

1. All about bioload. If you don't stock and feed like crazy, then you can most definatly keep coral without a skimmer.
2. Refugiums are nice because they add areas fro pods and other creaturse to grow or filter your water. sponges,algeas, etc.
3.Skimmers will help if you decide to have alot of fish.
4. spawning. sorry but a skimmer will go crazy and overflow when this happens and nornal setups will dump it right back into the sump/tank.

Thats it. to simple.:deadhorse:
 
Honestly this subject is SO simple! Theres very few equations to skimming or non skimming.

1. All about bioload. If you don't stock and feed like crazy, then you can most definatly keep coral without a skimmer.
2. Refugiums are nice because they add areas fro pods and other creaturse to grow or filter your water. sponges,algeas, etc.
3.Skimmers will help if you decide to have alot of fish.
4. spawning. sorry but a skimmer will go crazy and overflow when this happens and nornal setups will dump it right back into the sump/tank.

Thats it. to simple.:deadhorse:

Yep, you are beating a dead horse, the last post was 6 years ago!

Check out my Against the grain sps tank, for skimmerless fun!
 
One of the best tanks I have seen yet for coral health, was a 40b with a aqua clear and a light running two years with just weekly water changes and two fish. He had a tank full of the largest most healthiest and colorful acans I have ever seen.

Can it be done, of course, but I run 20 fish, and love every one of them including my large skimmer.
 
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