marinelife
Active member
Unarce - great post!!
THE GREAT SKIMMERLESS DEBATE! join on in
- Thread starter Shawnts106
- Start date
Wiskey
New member
I have a TurboFloater 1000 on a OR 2700 pump (rated to 250G) on a 15 Gallon nano tank. This tank has no fish, only live rock and I don't feed. I still get at least 2 full cups of smelly skimate per week from the rock cleaning up.
If your skimmer is not pulling anything, there is probably something wrong with it. Remember the MR-1 is a Beckett skimmer, it Requires a pressure rated pump for proper performance.
You can get by with a DSB and no skimmer for a while, but IMHO it will only help the sand fill up faster.
Your skimmer is not taking out all the micro life you guys are talking about. The micro-life requires a dirty tank to live, more dirt (detritus) more micro-life.
Personally, I wouldn't run a tank without a skimmer.
Whiskey
If your skimmer is not pulling anything, there is probably something wrong with it. Remember the MR-1 is a Beckett skimmer, it Requires a pressure rated pump for proper performance.
You can get by with a DSB and no skimmer for a while, but IMHO it will only help the sand fill up faster.
Your skimmer is not taking out all the micro life you guys are talking about. The micro-life requires a dirty tank to live, more dirt (detritus) more micro-life.
Personally, I wouldn't run a tank without a skimmer.
Whiskey
Flatlander
Premium Member
So where is the reply,s to my posts from the turf scrubber alone advocates. 
Hmm, for some reason, I never seem to get many after posting. Seems to happen on a regular basis on these threads.
My thoughts on 02/co2 exchange regarding skimmers. Although its a common thought that skimmers provide the most o2, I found when experimenting with my tanks that the air mixing in large overflows & drain pipes had the greatest impact on my ph. The large beckett skimmer less.
Hmm, for some reason, I never seem to get many after posting. Seems to happen on a regular basis on these threads.My thoughts on 02/co2 exchange regarding skimmers. Although its a common thought that skimmers provide the most o2, I found when experimenting with my tanks that the air mixing in large overflows & drain pipes had the greatest impact on my ph. The large beckett skimmer less.
tacocat
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7557899#post7557899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flatlander
So where is the reply,s to my posts from the turf scrubber alone advocates.
My thoughts on 02/co2 exchange regarding skimmers. Although its a common thought that skimmers provide the most o2, I found when experimenting with my tanks that the air mixing in large overflows & drain pipes had the greatest impact on my ph. The large beckett skimmer less.
I'm glad you brought up O2. Skimmers assist in this function greatly, particularly needlewheel skimmers. If you are running a algae turf scrubber or algae refugium, I recommend running their lighting period for 24 hrs or reverse to the display tank to cut back on 02 demands.
Shawnts106
New member
Let us know how this turns.. This is very interesting!
Mainly because not alot of people recognize what a Turf Scrbber is...
haha, I started laughing at that ... After reading the quote above and the the next sentence is that... that was humorous... to me...
ok, Im probably the only one.. so nevermind.
Amphiprion
Premium Member
The amount of CO2 and O2 exchanged from the aquarium is entirely dependent upon the overall amounts in the house. If your house is poorly ventilated, no amount of skimming or aeration will make a difference. The effects of photosynthesis are a different story altogether.
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
My sump/fuge are lit on a reverse cycle compared to the display.
On the subject of agitation, one thing I did on my new tank, which may not make much difference, is my return.
The lock line on my return is near the surface of the water, so it randomly creates a venturi which blows a lot of bubbles into the display. The amount and frequency is random.
I did this more for the effect, as an occasional blast of bubbles is kinda cool, like a wate crashing on the reef.
But it does add some air into the water column, and may be of some benifit.
On the subject of agitation, one thing I did on my new tank, which may not make much difference, is my return.
The lock line on my return is near the surface of the water, so it randomly creates a venturi which blows a lot of bubbles into the display. The amount and frequency is random.
I did this more for the effect, as an occasional blast of bubbles is kinda cool, like a wate crashing on the reef.
But it does add some air into the water column, and may be of some benifit.
i have a 140gl sps, 100gl softie, and a 30gl sea horse tanks. all three developed cyno and hair algea when i installed skimmers that were rated for or above the size of the tanks. for two days now i have either removed or turned down my skimmers and the problem algeas are going away. my softee tank lost almost all LPS with the skimmer on. could someone please explain why this is happening.
Flatlander
Premium Member
My point was it was turf scrubber this & that earlier in the thread, using reference,s. So I added my comments as an actual turf scrubber user and nothing? :lol:
And my lighting ran RDP. Never found it made much of a difference in the night time ph levels though. As I dont own an o2 measuring device, I cant comment there, but dropping ph is an indication of the lack of co2/o2 exchange.
I can still say without a doubt, the largest impact on that, without changing reactor or kalk additions or lighting, was the use of my 30in. deep overflows with 1 1/4in. stacks.
I can also say for a fact, I had more indication of exchange from a large beckett than my needle wheels, because of the amount of water being pushed through the beckett. I suppose multiple pump needle wheels would do that also, but mine only had one pump.
Amphiprion
Premium Member
The Krebs cycle is active 24 hours per day--the photosynthetic cycle is not. Organisms (plant and animal alike) are CONSTANTLY creating carbon dioxide. Regardless of gas exchange, if there is an already high concentration of carbon dioxide in the surrounding air, it will do you no good.
tacocat
Premium Member
Good call. Yes, they are constantly creating carbon dioxide. I should have stated that without light, the autotrophs stop producing oxygen, and there will be less available oxygen.
Very true, but if the CO2 level is high enough to be detrimental to the tank, it would be detrimental to hobbyist, homeowner, etc. There is a lot of concern surrounding the owners of newer homes and oxygen levels. Many owners of newer homes have trouble keeping their pH levels high. Still, there seems sufficient amounts of oxygen to sustain life, and a skimmer will help with gas exchange.
G-money
Premium Member
Flatlander,
No one has experiences to contribute to the ATS topic because of 1.) the patent and 2.) subsequent invisibility of the product on the market. In order to employ one, you'd pretty much have to DIY. So stupid - to patent a product like 10 years ago that never really saw the light of day. That does the hobby alot of good.
As for "the great debate', there is nothing that says you need to use a skimmer. There is nothing that can be done by a skimmer that can't (with varying degrees of effort) be done another way. At the same time, there are things that will be removed with a skimmer that won't be removed other ways (speaking mainly of planktonic items).
In the end, SPS keeper or not, there are people who want run their tank from complete nutrient miser status to ultra au naturale and everything in between. A person is no more right in their philospophy than someone with the complete opposite ideology. SPS corals are not doomed to die without a skimmer. Color is absolutely no proof of good health (one trip to a coral reef will show you that) or ensured success (as anyone who's had a colorful seemingly healthy coral RTN on them will attest). It happens....Not everyone keeps SPS corals in their tank for wicked colors. Some find them nothing more than a pleasing backdrop for the magnitude of life they can get to proliferate in their tank. Undoubtedly, "SPS" is too broad a term to say that maybe some of them would prefer such "lagoonal" conditions - and thrive.
I think it's noble for people to go against the grain and try to achieve same results with underutilized methods. What is a skimmer really going to remove that a combination of carbon, ozone, phosphate media and algae can't? The answer is probably "not much", though I can't say for sure.
The answer to why most people use skimmers is, quite simply, because most people use skimmers. Maybe it's because it's the easiest and quickest way to create the "proper" environment, but it isn't the only way. Problem being that the alternatives are not as easy, probably not as quick and definitely underrepresented. Noble ventures nonetheless....
No one has experiences to contribute to the ATS topic because of 1.) the patent and 2.) subsequent invisibility of the product on the market. In order to employ one, you'd pretty much have to DIY. So stupid - to patent a product like 10 years ago that never really saw the light of day. That does the hobby alot of good.
As for "the great debate', there is nothing that says you need to use a skimmer. There is nothing that can be done by a skimmer that can't (with varying degrees of effort) be done another way. At the same time, there are things that will be removed with a skimmer that won't be removed other ways (speaking mainly of planktonic items).
In the end, SPS keeper or not, there are people who want run their tank from complete nutrient miser status to ultra au naturale and everything in between. A person is no more right in their philospophy than someone with the complete opposite ideology. SPS corals are not doomed to die without a skimmer. Color is absolutely no proof of good health (one trip to a coral reef will show you that) or ensured success (as anyone who's had a colorful seemingly healthy coral RTN on them will attest). It happens....Not everyone keeps SPS corals in their tank for wicked colors. Some find them nothing more than a pleasing backdrop for the magnitude of life they can get to proliferate in their tank. Undoubtedly, "SPS" is too broad a term to say that maybe some of them would prefer such "lagoonal" conditions - and thrive.
I think it's noble for people to go against the grain and try to achieve same results with underutilized methods. What is a skimmer really going to remove that a combination of carbon, ozone, phosphate media and algae can't? The answer is probably "not much", though I can't say for sure.
The answer to why most people use skimmers is, quite simply, because most people use skimmers.
Maybe it's because it's the easiest and quickest way to create the "proper" environment, but it isn't the only way. Problem being that the alternatives are not as easy, probably not as quick and definitely underrepresented. Noble ventures nonetheless....
Jeremy Blaze
Former Reef Addict
G-money,
Great reply. Well said.
Great reply. Well said.
maxpower2112
New member
Here is my old tank that was skimmer less for it's entire existence.
Here is all the info:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aquarium
Here is all the info:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aquarium
Flatlander
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7567259#post7567259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G-money
Flatlander,
No one has experiences to contribute to the ATS topic because of 1.) the patent and 2.) subsequent invisibility of the product on the market. In order to employ one, you'd pretty much have to DIY. So stupid - to patent a product like 10 years ago that never really saw the light of day. That does the hobby alot of good.
I agree with most of that. Thats my point as I said above. Sorry about becoming redundant. Earlier in this thread, as with others, turf scrubbers aresuggested as the alternate way to go. As a scrubber user, I then comment. Nothing, nada further. Again, that the point. Very little use, so saying that they are an alternative goes without support.
I also agree its a shame that turf scrubbers never became more popular.
Shawnts106
New member
Hi again...
What LPS did you have, Euphyllias are extremely sensitive to changes like that... Every since I put my ASMG2 on my 75 My Torch and Hammer have been dieing... due to brown jelly!
Im probably going to stop running it for a while and see what happens...
OHHH, I ... dont see what your talking about.. still... Very confused here.
And no, not everyone keeps SPS corals for color... I have seen many brown acros that look beautiful!
what the MESS is a TURF SCRUBBER... is this another word for Refugium?
Very good, I didnt think about that!!!
I have no idea...
What LPS did you have, Euphyllias are extremely sensitive to changes like that... Every since I put my ASMG2 on my 75 My Torch and Hammer have been dieing... due to brown jelly!
Im probably going to stop running it for a while and see what happens...
OHHH, I ... dont see what your talking about.. still... Very confused here.
Great post Gmoney... Color doesnt have a thing to do with health... unless its bleached... but I have seen VERY healthy BROWN sps corals... this just says that they have been in water with loads of disolved nutrients for their xoozanthellae (sp?) to feed of off....
And no, not everyone keeps SPS corals for color... I have seen many brown acros that look beautiful!
Agreed! Though, the combo of having to buy Carbon, phosphate media, nitrate media, refugium lighting, refugium tank etc... will probably outweigh the cost of a skimmer... and be much more trouble in the LONG RUN... some people just ... well... either are cheapskates that dont want to fork out that much money at once, or are just stupid thinking they will save money somehow... or dont relize what they are doing... or just are crazy and think its better to do more work and spend more money to remove nutrients manually!
yes, and no affence, but most of the corals are... brown.
Again I say, " If more people knew what a turf scrubber was they might. "
what the MESS is a TURF SCRUBBER... is this another word for Refugium?
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