The "How to go Barebottom thread."
- Thread starter SeanT
- Start date
Frankysreef
New member
Travis
10 and over club
This is totally just my personal opinion, but if it were me, I wouldn't. It takes a long time to get your rocks covered with coralline again. Now if there is any nuisance algae or pests at all growing on that rock, I would do it for sure, just not if you aren't having any problems with it.
REEF-DADDY
New member
Take a couple rocks out and cook them for a week or 2. I bet when you see your water you'll do the rest. But at least you can make your own mind up!
Travis
10 and over club
You lost me on that one.
That was my response to another person's question. FWIW, I've cooked about 400 lbs of rock before and on another occasion I cooked another 100 or so lbs so I do know what can come out of it. I'm just saying, if your rock is bare of anything but coralline, IMO, it is clean enough already.
headshrink
New member
I have never done it myself, but from what I have read 1-2 wks isn't enough.
aquaforlife
New member
WOW... just read this whole thread. It certainly left me with more to think about... Which is a sign of a great read. 
So can I describe my system and get some feedback, and suggestions for improvements on my unique BB system? Well, here goes:
So, my system is very unorthodox. It consists of three tiny tanks plumbed together to make one still very tiny tank... for sps and macroalgae. There is a 2.5 gallon sps tank, an elevated 2.5 gallon macoralgae display/refugium, and a 2.5 gallon sump, all BB. I did not have the time to fully cook the rock for this system, as it had to be setup in time to enter a contest over at nan0-reef.c0m, but it did get three weeks of cooking.
The main return from the sump is a Mag 5, with about 3/4 of it's flow going up about 2 feet to the sps tank, where it enters via a miniaturized Calfo style horizontal manifold made of 1/2" CPVC, and the rest of the flow goes into the refugium via a 1/2" CPVC spraybar. The refuigium feeds by gravity into the sps tank. There is also a Mag 3.5 closed loop with two outlets going through a SCWD. See why I did a BB tank?
The sump contains about 5lbs of very nice LR, two Lee's Air powered skimmers, and a bag of Purigen.
every night or two I feed DT's phyto or LiquidLife's Bioplankton, some DT's oyster eggs, and/or LiquidLife's CoralPlankton i supplement using B-ionic, Epsom Salts, Salifert's Iodine (Red grceilaria uptakes that stuff quick!). I've been considering adding an amino aid sup like Saliferts' Coraline amino acids...?
I realize a refugium is unneeded (maybe unwanted?) on a BB tank, but I love the look of a planted sw tank, so I decided to give it a whirl... plus, I like the idea of food production via refugium. I have noticed a couple things though: detritus builds up alot i the refugium due to a couple things: 1) lack of strong flow 2) some algae naturally dies off constantly. Furthermore, do to skimming and frequent water changes, the algae grows very slowly, but it still grows and does well.
I do large weekly water changes, making sure to siphon out any and all detritus in all tanks. I also do mid week turkey baster rock cleaning, and quick siphons of a quart here or there as needed.
I want to add a couple small Trimma gobies in the next month or so, which should help introduce a little more nutrients into the system forthe refugium to utilize, but not so much it defeats the purpose of a BB tank.
So, what do you guys think?
Thanks,
jared
So can I describe my system and get some feedback, and suggestions for improvements on my unique BB system? Well, here goes:
So, my system is very unorthodox. It consists of three tiny tanks plumbed together to make one still very tiny tank... for sps and macroalgae. There is a 2.5 gallon sps tank, an elevated 2.5 gallon macoralgae display/refugium, and a 2.5 gallon sump, all BB. I did not have the time to fully cook the rock for this system, as it had to be setup in time to enter a contest over at nan0-reef.c0m, but it did get three weeks of cooking.
The main return from the sump is a Mag 5, with about 3/4 of it's flow going up about 2 feet to the sps tank, where it enters via a miniaturized Calfo style horizontal manifold made of 1/2" CPVC, and the rest of the flow goes into the refugium via a 1/2" CPVC spraybar. The refuigium feeds by gravity into the sps tank. There is also a Mag 3.5 closed loop with two outlets going through a SCWD. See why I did a BB tank?
The sump contains about 5lbs of very nice LR, two Lee's Air powered skimmers, and a bag of Purigen.
every night or two I feed DT's phyto or LiquidLife's Bioplankton, some DT's oyster eggs, and/or LiquidLife's CoralPlankton i supplement using B-ionic, Epsom Salts, Salifert's Iodine (Red grceilaria uptakes that stuff quick!). I've been considering adding an amino aid sup like Saliferts' Coraline amino acids...?
I realize a refugium is unneeded (maybe unwanted?) on a BB tank, but I love the look of a planted sw tank, so I decided to give it a whirl... plus, I like the idea of food production via refugium. I have noticed a couple things though: detritus builds up alot i the refugium due to a couple things: 1) lack of strong flow 2) some algae naturally dies off constantly. Furthermore, do to skimming and frequent water changes, the algae grows very slowly, but it still grows and does well.
I do large weekly water changes, making sure to siphon out any and all detritus in all tanks. I also do mid week turkey baster rock cleaning, and quick siphons of a quart here or there as needed.
I want to add a couple small Trimma gobies in the next month or so, which should help introduce a little more nutrients into the system forthe refugium to utilize, but not so much it defeats the purpose of a BB tank.
So, what do you guys think?
Thanks,
jared
causeofhim
New member
I think what is suggested is try cooking for a couple of weeks, swoosh you rocks and look and all the "gunk" that is already comming off of them. All of that will be "shedding" off of the rocks over the next few months in your tank.
REEF-DADDY
New member
Exactly
aquaforlife
New member
Remember, I have a refugium I want to keep well populated with pods. I also have a 3 year old mini-coco worm in the fuge that seems to do better when DT's is fed.
Jared
Jared
aquaforlife
New member
I do one pump of each coral plankton and/or bioplankton and/or one ml of DT's, and a tiny dab of oyster eggs in 1/4 cup of RO watter, keep it in the coldest part of my fridge (the back), and feed that over the week, a Tbs or so at a time.
I'm feeding the pods because they look hungry but seriously, I'm feeding the pods and the corals simultaneously with this mix(the corals don't eat the phyto, but they are probably eating the eggs and the rotofers). Also, I believe in the idea of indirect feeding of the corals by keeping natural micro-invert populations up through feeding phyto, which are then eaten by the corals. Also ,I want to add a goby or two (Trimma or Eviota spp. probably... very small), and I'd like them to have a fun time hunting pods and other such micro-life.
You say I'll have a nutrient build up over time, but with large weekly water changes (~80% right now with the shed from the under-cooked rocks), skimming (two air-skimmers are pretty heavy/efficient for a system with a total of about 6 gallons of H2O in it), plenty of water movement and detritus clean-up, and the algae growing and being harvested regularly to remove excess nutrients, where are the nutrients building up? Please understand, I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand where nutrients could build up if everything stay in suspension, is skimmed, or manually removed promptly, and nay excess nutrients that are broken down (oh, the horrere... nutrient breakdown in a BB tank!) are banked by the macro algae growth and removed through pruning.
Also please note that I am in no way trying to chalange your way of doing BB tanks, as you have immense amounts of experiance and success. I just wanted to see what your take was on my approach, and if you had any suggestions for me other than: "Get rid of the refugium." "Air powerd skimmers are outdated and sucky," or just "Get a bigger tank and do it right!" (which I've gotten plenty of elsewhere).
Thanks,
Jared
I'm feeding the pods because they look hungry
but seriously, I'm feeding the pods and the corals simultaneously with this mix(the corals don't eat the phyto, but they are probably eating the eggs and the rotofers). Also, I believe in the idea of indirect feeding of the corals by keeping natural micro-invert populations up through feeding phyto, which are then eaten by the corals. Also ,I want to add a goby or two (Trimma or Eviota spp. probably... very small), and I'd like them to have a fun time hunting pods and other such micro-life.You say I'll have a nutrient build up over time, but with large weekly water changes (~80% right now with the shed from the under-cooked rocks), skimming (two air-skimmers are pretty heavy/efficient for a system with a total of about 6 gallons of H2O in it), plenty of water movement and detritus clean-up, and the algae growing and being harvested regularly to remove excess nutrients, where are the nutrients building up? Please understand, I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand where nutrients could build up if everything stay in suspension, is skimmed, or manually removed promptly, and nay excess nutrients that are broken down (oh, the horrere... nutrient breakdown in a BB tank!) are banked by the macro algae growth and removed through pruning.
Also please note that I am in no way trying to chalange your way of doing BB tanks, as you have immense amounts of experiance and success. I just wanted to see what your take was on my approach, and if you had any suggestions for me other than: "Get rid of the refugium." "Air powerd skimmers are outdated and sucky," or just "Get a bigger tank and do it right!" (which I've gotten plenty of elsewhere).
Thanks,
Jared
SeanT
Premium Member
Hey Jared,
It seems you have a firm handle on your husbandry.
I applaud you.
Remember, if you do start to see algae creeping up, cut back on the feedings, and with how you maintain your tank I suspect you will have it in check quickly.
I had a fuge with chaeto in it until recently...fire burned it up. lol
It was a blessing in disguse as it became a huge detritus trap for me and the chaeto never grew, so I have been forced to get rid of it.
But my fuge was a 125 gallon tank, a much bigger PITA to maintain.
As for the buildup, I was referring to it getting trapped in the rocks pores and decaying, simple powerheading or turkey basting would remedy this with little problems.
Sean
It seems you have a firm handle on your husbandry.
I applaud you.
Remember, if you do start to see algae creeping up, cut back on the feedings, and with how you maintain your tank I suspect you will have it in check quickly.
I had a fuge with chaeto in it until recently...fire burned it up. lol
It was a blessing in disguse as it became a huge detritus trap for me and the chaeto never grew, so I have been forced to get rid of it.
But my fuge was a 125 gallon tank, a much bigger PITA to maintain.
As for the buildup, I was referring to it getting trapped in the rocks pores and decaying, simple powerheading or turkey basting would remedy this with little problems.
Sean
aquaforlife
New member
Thanks for the response... I will have to consider feeding less.
Sorry to hear about the fire.
Jared
Sorry to hear about the fire.
Jared
King-Kong
New member
I wanted to chime in and write out some my feelings on this BB business.
When I first setup my tank 4 months ago (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=640331) I created a faux sand bottom. I wanted the look of sand, but without the worries of it. I had 0 idea about the true methodology of BB and rock cooking.
In my improper ways I did not cook my incoming base rock, and in fact did the opposite. I reverse cooked it. In an attempt to "Seed" the majority of the base rock for my new tank, I dumped water which I had removed from my 20g (at the time was infested with bryopsis) into my holding bins. This included large quantities of bryopsis and detritus. THATS RIGHT: I SEEDED MY BASE ROCK WITH BYROPSIS FILLED, DETRITUS PACKED WATER. Put that in your pipe, bomber!
Also in this holding tank I had a deep sand bed. I cannot remember where this sand came from, but there's a good chance it was from my 20g as well. This tank sat for a few months in the dark with heavy circulation while I continued this process.
Fast forward to today to my new 90g+33g setup. I am battling a heavy bryopsis forest which literally sprouted from my base rock (and has not shown up on my older rock). About a month ago, I removed the sand I had placed in my sump (did I mention I'm an idiot?). The buckets of crud that I pulled after only being 2 months old told me why sand beds have to be DEEP to be successful (ALL THAT CRAP NEEDS A PLACE TO GO!).
Today I am a changed man! I stir up my tank constantly (I use an oversized mag-float magnet to create awesome currents along otherwise dead areas of the tank). My 50x turnover rate then helps sustain the particles and push them down to my ASM G-2 (skimming wet). That which isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t picked up inside of the directly-fed ASM then settles in the center compartment of my sump. A calm, slow moving area perfect for collecting detritus. This mess is then siphoned out nearly daily by my continuous 5g water changes (which now serve a purpose). I also siphon directly from major piles found in the tank (those which are accessible).
A few days ago I began to take a more aggressive approach. Strong turnover and stirring wasnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t giving me results fast enough. I busted out the tooth brush. I began scrubbing my rocks, and have done so daily. I have found that the rocks with the largest amount of detritus coming off are also those w/ the largest amount of bryopsis! So far this aggressive brushing has also allowed me more effective ways to remove the bryopsis which still lingered (and made my pH difficult to maintain at night).
Because I epoxied my rocks together, and because they have coral frags attached to them, I cannot remove them.
However, even with my bryopsis problems, I have managed to maintain healthy colonies of coral. Infact, if you read the later updates in my thread, you will find that my first major SPS purchase was delayed by fedex resulting in cold, 2 day old frags. Those frags have since encrusted their bases, regrown INTO dead, white, RTN areas, and are all gaining color and showing lots of new growth.
I realize this is most likely only happening because of the ridiculous amounts of water changes I do (5g almost daily), but I feel it's the only way to offset the mistakes I made early on.
I hope in the coming months the bryopsis will reduce, and I can take it easy on the daily water changes and rock scrubbing.
When I first setup my tank 4 months ago (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=640331) I created a faux sand bottom. I wanted the look of sand, but without the worries of it. I had 0 idea about the true methodology of BB and rock cooking.
In my improper ways I did not cook my incoming base rock, and in fact did the opposite. I reverse cooked it. In an attempt to "Seed" the majority of the base rock for my new tank, I dumped water which I had removed from my 20g (at the time was infested with bryopsis) into my holding bins. This included large quantities of bryopsis and detritus. THATS RIGHT: I SEEDED MY BASE ROCK WITH BYROPSIS FILLED, DETRITUS PACKED WATER. Put that in your pipe, bomber!
Also in this holding tank I had a deep sand bed. I cannot remember where this sand came from, but there's a good chance it was from my 20g as well. This tank sat for a few months in the dark with heavy circulation while I continued this process.
Fast forward to today to my new 90g+33g setup. I am battling a heavy bryopsis forest which literally sprouted from my base rock (and has not shown up on my older rock). About a month ago, I removed the sand I had placed in my sump (did I mention I'm an idiot?). The buckets of crud that I pulled after only being 2 months old told me why sand beds have to be DEEP to be successful (ALL THAT CRAP NEEDS A PLACE TO GO!).
Today I am a changed man! I stir up my tank constantly (I use an oversized mag-float magnet to create awesome currents along otherwise dead areas of the tank). My 50x turnover rate then helps sustain the particles and push them down to my ASM G-2 (skimming wet). That which isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t picked up inside of the directly-fed ASM then settles in the center compartment of my sump. A calm, slow moving area perfect for collecting detritus. This mess is then siphoned out nearly daily by my continuous 5g water changes (which now serve a purpose). I also siphon directly from major piles found in the tank (those which are accessible).
A few days ago I began to take a more aggressive approach. Strong turnover and stirring wasnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t giving me results fast enough. I busted out the tooth brush. I began scrubbing my rocks, and have done so daily. I have found that the rocks with the largest amount of detritus coming off are also those w/ the largest amount of bryopsis! So far this aggressive brushing has also allowed me more effective ways to remove the bryopsis which still lingered (and made my pH difficult to maintain at night).
Because I epoxied my rocks together, and because they have coral frags attached to them, I cannot remove them.
However, even with my bryopsis problems, I have managed to maintain healthy colonies of coral. Infact, if you read the later updates in my thread, you will find that my first major SPS purchase was delayed by fedex resulting in cold, 2 day old frags. Those frags have since encrusted their bases, regrown INTO dead, white, RTN areas, and are all gaining color and showing lots of new growth.
I realize this is most likely only happening because of the ridiculous amounts of water changes I do (5g almost daily), but I feel it's the only way to offset the mistakes I made early on.
I hope in the coming months the bryopsis will reduce, and I can take it easy on the daily water changes and rock scrubbing.
