The Journey - 300+ Gallon System Build - Picture Heavy

[tgunn]

Reefed419 is correct, the one downside to manifolds is that it can be a bit tough to balance the flow coming out of each. If you are using it to feed things where super-precise control isn't necessary, that's optimal.

On my old 140g I used a manifold to feed the skimmer, calcium reactor, and a media reactor. The rest of the return went to the main tank. Small variations in how clogged the reactors got would unbalance my overflow making it loud. Similar issues with the skimmer.

As long as you've set things up assuming the flow at any one port can vary you should be fine.

 

[Newbie Aquarist]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8490811342/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8490811342_bd55d9a1eb_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="Untitled"></a>

Man(IMHO) that is allot for return pump. Couldn't you use another pump just for running your manifold?

 

[bpcardona]

Thanks for everyone's input. I would really like to run this all on one pump. If that's not possible I will put in another. In regards to precision. The protein skimmer I plan on running suggest 600gph. The chiller suggest a 700-1000gph, and the BRS reactor suggest a 300gph.

The protein skimmer I can see the need for a constant flow rate, this is why I plan on it being 1st. The chiller obviously doesn't matter much with a 300gph variance. The BRS reactor will be some issue, but it has a built in control valve as well. The BRS GFO/carbon reactor need to be monitored in my current setup, and it has its own pump. The denitrifier and the frag tank can be adjusted and don't need to be precise.

Assuming I don't meet a full clog, I should be able to maintain a relative constant GPH. If I see that I am losing flow back to my tank, ie loses full siphon, I will need to troubleshoot the system. I think the biggest issue here will be a failure to change filter socks. I will just need to force my self to stay on top of this.

Is my logic correct, or am I completely off base?

 

[Crazy_Beaver]

Thanks for everyone's input. I would really like to run this all on one pump. If that's not possible I will put in another. In regards to precision. The protein skimmer I plan on running suggest 600gph. The chiller suggest a 700-1000gph, and the BRS reactor suggest a 300gph.

The protein skimmer I can see the need for a constant flow rate, this is why I plan on it being 1st. The chiller obviously doesn't matter much with a 300gph variance. The BRS reactor will be some issue, but it has a built in control valve as well. The BRS GFO/carbon reactor need to be monitored in my current setup, and it has its own pump. The denitrifier and the frag tank can be adjusted and don't need to be precise.

Assuming I don't meet a full clog, I should be able to maintain a relative constant GPH. If I see that I am losing flow back to my tank, ie loses full siphon, I will need to troubleshoot the system. I think the biggest issue here will be a failure to change filter socks. I will just need to force my self to stay on top of this.

Is my logic correct, or am I completely off base?

The best way to control the flow through anything when running a manifold is to add valves in the exit of reactors, chillers etc

Tagging along!:thumbsup:

 

[bpcardona]

The best way to control the flow through anything when running a manifold is to add valves in the exit of reactors, chillers etc

Tagging along!:thumbsup:

Thanks for this great piece of advice! I wouldn't have thought of that nor have I read it anywhere, but make sense.

Thanks

 

[Swirlygig]

I am not so sure that is going to be enough pump with all the stuff hooked up to it. You would be better running a separate pump for the other stuff. My understanding is darts are not great with lots of excessive plumbing/head pressure. Maybe someone who knows a bit about plumping and returns better can chime in to help here...

 

[jmking33]

I'd use the reeflo to just move water from sump to tanks. Then use smaller pumps for the skimmer, reactor, etc.

 

[Crazy_Beaver]

I have bought a used snapper from a friend!He was running it on a manifold and I planning to do so as well!

IMHO it all depends on how much water you are happy returning in your display and this should be your guideline!

 

[bpcardona]

To help me understand

To help me understand

So I am consulting a engineer and another very educated person in regards to my plumbing. These are some models I put together tonight to explain my setup. From what I am gathering it will be very hard to control the flow at each stop along this system. Because this manifold also feeds my tank, the flow through my tank will be difficult and variant. I may have to redesign with another pump dedicated to the display tank. We shall see what the experts say.


To follow will be a model of the return in my tank, along with lots of numbers. I will provide Height, Length and size of pipe, number of valve and unions, and also the number of elbows.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8495853807/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.34.11 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/8495853807_0955f10e43_b.jpg" width="742" height="446" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.34.11 PM"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8495853997/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.33.13 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8495853997_dd33966dee_b.jpg" width="717" height="390" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.33.13 PM"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8495853909/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.25.27 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8495853909_18fd52590d_b.jpg" width="847" height="651" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.25.27 PM"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8495854041/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.24.19 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8513/8495854041_646d99d874_b.jpg" width="962" height="663" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 9.24.19 PM"></a>>​

 

[bpcardona]

This is the back of the tank and the rest of the plumbing. This is the return from the pump. I still need to get some number, but that will likely be tomorrow

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8495980617/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 10.39.54 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8495980617_219a06e276_b.jpg" width="723" height="601" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 10.39.54 PM"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8497084732/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 10.40.37 PM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8497084732_ecee1d75f0.jpg" width="469" height="500" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-21 at 10.40.37 PM"></a>​

 

[Newbie Aquarist]

If you want chaos in your tank I think you created that with the manifold. Random current should be good since most of the flow will be internal with the powerheads.

 

[tgunn]

Thanks for this great piece of advice! I wouldn't have thought of that nor have I read it anywhere, but make sense.

Thanks

Just make sure your reactors are able to handle the pressure of having the valve on their outlet. You're going to be pressurizing them with this mode of operation. Not bad, but something to consider.

Plumbing is so unpredictable. I can't count the number of revisions the plumbing on my 140g went through. When I set up my next tank I'll do it differently yet again.

 

[bpcardona]

Okay so here are the numbers. I will attempt to explain the figure below.

The total 90 elbows in this system is 4. The figure are also color coded. For all green pipe, the diameter is 1.5". For all red pipe, the diameter is 2".

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8499660757/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.41.24 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8499660757_61f899787a_b.jpg" width="672" height="469" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.41.24 AM"></a>

Figure 1
Overview of the total system. This show the total positive elevation of 69" (~5.6'). This is starting at the pump and ending with the loc-line fans in the display tank.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8500767064/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.40.15 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/8500767064_481a67f7c6_b.jpg" width="771" height="487" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.40.15 AM"></a>

Figure 2: Another overview of the total system. This is here so that one understands the isolated shot to come.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8499654295/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.28.14 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8513/8499654295_5c4ccf2293_b.jpg" width="738" height="663" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.28.14 AM"></a>

Figure 3: This shows the origin of the pump. I will rise 15" (positive elevation) to obey the 10x Diameter rule before the first elbow. However this model shows a 45, but needs to show a 90. I simply can't use the 45 due to my stand.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8499653269/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.33.11 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8499653269_eb6a7c6042_b.jpg" width="766" height="640" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.33.11 AM"></a>

Figure 4: This show a 69" linear run to the entry point of my wall. This includes the 2" manifold and the run of 1.5" pipe. Therefore it should be noted that the manifold length is ~30".

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8500759208/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.34.22 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8093/8500759208_6c8197cf76.jpg" width="500" height="290" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.34.22 AM"></a>

Figure 5: This is another linear run through the my hidden pantry. The linear length here is 135".

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8499653171/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.35.40 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8499653171_1c6c517184.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.35.40 AM"></a>

Figure 5: This show the final positive elevation of 52" (~4.3'). This will end with six 3/4" Loc-Line fans (two are using "Y" adapters)

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8499653097/" title="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.37.31 AM by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8232/8499653097_af1268beb0.jpg" width="479" height="466" alt="Screen Shot 2013-02-23 at 9.37.31 AM"></a>

Figure 6: This shows the total positive elevation of 67".
​

 

[bpcardona]

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to everyone. I have been trying to work on the tank, but life has gotten in the way. Thanks for everyone comments and suggestions.

Just make sure your reactors are able to handle the pressure of having the valve on their outlet. You're going to be pressurizing them with this mode of operation. Not bad, but something to consider.

Plumbing is so unpredictable. I can't count the number of revisions the plumbing on my 140g went through. When I set up my next tank I'll do it differently yet again.

tgunn: I great point you make here. I will be sure to be very careful of any back pressure caused by an exit valve. I hope to only do this plumbing once!

If you want chaos in your tank I think you created that with the manifold. Random current should be good since most of the flow will be internal with the powerheads.

CHOAS? Not FUBR? at least not yet right. The variable flow won't be a problem in regards to the flow generated in the tank. However because I am fine tuning the sump returns to be at full siphon, any change will effect this. Then I get a mess or noisy tank.

I have bought a used snapper from a friend!He was running it on a manifold and I planning to do so as well!

IMHO it all depends on how much water you are happy returning in your display and this should be your guideline!

Thanks I need to hear that other are doing the same thing as me. It very dangerous to be a "Maverick". Just ask Palin....

I'd use the reeflo to just move water from sump to tanks. Then use smaller pumps for the skimmer, reactor, etc.

I may end up with two pumps. One for the display return and one for the manifold. I want to get away from using a bunch of smaller pump, one for each device.

I am not so sure that is going to be enough pump with all the stuff hooked up to it. You would be better running a separate pump for the other stuff. My understanding is darts are not great with lots of excessive plumbing/head pressure. Maybe someone who knows a bit about plumping and returns better can chime in to help here...

Hey buddy!!! Your advice is well taken. I will probably end up with two Reeflo darts. I am surprised to hear a negative review on them. I have heard nothing but great things. Perhaps I need to research again.

PS the coral are looking GREAT!! Thanks a million.

Reefed419 is correct, the one downside to manifolds is that it can be a bit tough to balance the flow coming out of each. If you are using it to feed things where super-precise control isn't necessary, that's optimal.

On my old 140g I used a manifold to feed the skimmer, calcium reactor, and a media reactor. The rest of the return went to the main tank. Small variations in how clogged the reactors got would unbalance my overflow making it loud. Similar issues with the skimmer.

As long as you've set things up assuming the flow at any one port can vary you should be fine.

Thanks. It is looking like I am going to have two pumps on this system. One for the DT and one for the manifold.

Not speaking from personal experience but I would think that having that many out puts running from one pump, could end up being a real hassel to keep the pressure you desire in each device as water pressure builds or lessens. I do not have a better solution. just thinking aloud is all. I see alot of people running manifolds to run all the reactors, so it mught not be that big of a hassel to deal with.

An engineer friend of mine echoes what you said. I am currently looking at a second pump.

 

[bpcardona]

So stepping away from plumbing I have some other updates:

Thanks you the John and the guys at Fish and Other Itchy Stuff I now have a hole in my 55g sump! It is a 75mm hole with a 2" bulkhead. This was my first visit to their shop, and I love it. They have a great atmosphere, and some supplies that other shop don't have! Thanks.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8492470259/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8099/8492470259_3d417c5dbf_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8492471295/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8246/8492471295_beb4022627_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Untitled"></a>​

Regarding the rock work, I have decide to cure/seed the rock in the tank. I know I showed the rock being locked away in the tubs, but when I took it out to rinse I started to play around. I built up a plan for my aquascaping and thought it would be better to be able to take my time setting it up in the tank. If I cure/seeded it in the tubs for 6 week, investing all that time to get all that bacteria, then I would have to rush the aquascaping process. I felt that I could build my scene dry, take my time glue it together then add water. I will then cover the tank as not to let any light in for a few weeks. I will also do large water changes. I won't be able to do 100% each week, but I will do approx 55g each week. So here is my planned rock structure!

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8471659121/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8471659121_3d8dd5becc_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8472752638/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8236/8472752638_f9ce75393d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8472753860/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8472753860_47840c389f_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Untitled"></a>
​

Finally I have decided that the amount of sunlight getting to the Display Tank is to much. Therefore I will be getting the windows tinted. The four window at the top receive much of the morning and afternoon sunlight, and I don't want issues with algae or loss of color. Notice the glare on the tank during it's install. I went with I 3M product the will block 85% of the transmitted light. This gets installed Wednesday.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8491017244/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8491017244_363737cdf1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8491020690/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8491020690_94c1b87951_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="Untitled"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8421856912/" title="IMG_0508 by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8194/8421856912_6a660337a9_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_0508"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/90102096@N03/8504072288/" title="Untitled by elitecoral, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8093/8504072288_7726b8765a_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Untitled"></a>​

 

[tgunn]

I think your idea to stack up the rock in the tank dry is a good one. Then there is no big rush to perfect the aquascape and you don't have to try to do it underwater.

Looks like a nice aquascape so far. Plenty of open swimming space and interesting shapes.

I think you will be happy you decided to add another pump. It also gives you a bi more redundancy in case of a failure.

 

[bpcardona]

I think your idea to stack up the rock in the tank dry is a good one. Then there is no big rush to perfect the aquascape and you don't have to try to do it underwater.

Looks like a nice aquascape so far. Plenty of open swimming space and interesting shapes.

I think you will be happy you decided to add another pump. It also gives you a bi more redundancy in case of a failure.

I think is will be much happier with setting up the rock dry. I planned it out fairly well, even put tape around the edges to maintain a gap between the glass. But if I try to remember how to piece it all back together, quickly underwater. I would end up with something much different.

As far as the pump, the more I think about it the more it make sense. I just need to find another good deal on one.

 

[tgunn]

I think is will be much happier with setting up the rock dry. I planned it out fairly well, even put tape around the edges to maintain a gap between the glass. But if I try to remember how to piece it all back together, quickly underwater. I would end up with something much different.

As far as the pump, the more I think about it the more it make sense. I just need to find another good deal on one.

I think you'll be happy to have extra time to set it all up dry.

For the other pump you might want to consider a smaller pan world or iwaki. They're pressure pumps better suited for running reactors and what not. The dart is an awesome pump but it optimized for pushing large volumes of water through big pipes with little restriction.

 

[owenspackman]

now i see why you asked about windows! you have much more light on the display than I do, especially those top lights, tinting is the right way to go!

Seems we're the same age too, 'young' reefers in the grand scheme of things.

Good work so far, seems as though its been a patient build. I'll be tagging along, looking forward to seeing how it progresses!

Any stocking lists yet?

 

[bpcardona]

now i see why you asked about windows! you have much more light on the display than I do, especially those top lights, tinting is the right way to go!

Seems we're the same age too, 'young' reefers in the grand scheme of things.

Good work so far, seems as though its been a patient build. I'll be tagging along, looking forward to seeing how it progresses!

Any stocking lists yet?

I imagine we are about the same age, 28 here. I do get a lot of light in the room so hopefully this helps a lot. The build has been 3 months in the making, but well worth it. As a stock list goes, I have some ideas but nothing planned out. I really want a couple tangs, and more fairly wrasses. (don't tell the Tang police)