The Non-Reef Reef Project?

[eolthof]

I'm starting a build on a 120 gallon system with a 35 gallon sump / refugium.

I was talking about the project with my brother, about the use and availability of captive bred livestock. He has worked with marine biologists in Thailand, and was relating how concerned they were when the clowfish populations were ravaged after 'Finding Nemo".

Anyway, the conversation got me to thinking about turing the build into a project, where the goal is to completely build a reef tank with things that haven't come from a reef at all.

THe live rock and sand should be fairly easy, I beleive most of it is farmed anyway.

I know there are lots of captive bred clownfish and cardinals available.

Coral frags are easy.

I'm wondering how limited my fishselcetion would be, or am I going to end up with a tank full of clownfish. I also am wondering about invertebrates, etc. Are there such a thing as captive bred anemones? What about crabs, shripm, etc? Are soft corals fragged the same as SPS?

I'm sure I'm not the first person to come up with this idea. Any good reference in terms of what type of fish are commonly (or even uncommonly) captive bred, and where a guy might find them?

Thanks.

 

[49.35 North]

Any good reference in terms of what type of fish are commonly (or even uncommonly) captive bred, and where a guy might find them? Thanks.

Other than the sticky at the top of this forum, I was talking to the people at Aquariums West in Vancouver this summer and they hinted at some local attempts to captive breed invertebrates. You could try giving them a call as they're almost local for you.

 

[zachfishman]

I'm setting up my 29 with as much captive bred stuff as possible. The only things I've resigned to purchase wild-collected are my fish and CUC. All my LR is secondhand, and all my corals are frags. I did look into going tank-raised fish only as well, but being doubly-limited (a 29 AND going TB only) was hard.

There are definitely captive-bred nems, mostly RBTA. Not much in the way of other inverts though. Soft corals are fragged just as readily as others - though you don't usually see frag racks of softies in stores.

Some TB fish I came across were:

-most any clowns
-many dottybacks and Pseudochromis
-some assessors
-neon gobies, etc.
-Bangaii cardinals
-and recently, mandarin dragonets!

Props for planning to go full captive-raised.

 

[cortez marine]

Why not just buy net collected fish?
Then you can choose anything and help feed the fisherfolk and their families.
Net caught fish are from so many places now and one never has to buy cyanide fish.
Steve

 

[zachfishman]

Why not just buy net collected fish?
Then you can choose anything and help feed the fisherfolk and their families.
Net caught fish are from so many places now and one never has to buy cyanide fish.
Steve

How does one select net-collected fish?

 

[cortez marine]

With no knowledge of geography, its difficult.
However,
If you can find a retailer you trust... much can be revealed.

What retailer cannot develop a relationship with an importer that carries Hawaii, Tonga, Vanuatu, Solomons, Fiji, PNG, Australia, the Marshall Islands, Tahiti, Kiribati, Ghana, Kenya, Saudi, Mexico, Belize and Brazil?

Although there are many net collected fish in Florida, Indonesia and The Philippines, I left them off the list for this thread to illustrate a point;
Can you not find anything you like in these 100% clean countries list of hundreds of species?

Steve
PS,
Yes Florida, Indo and The Philippines have a drug problem that can confuse things.However, without futher or more inside knowledge, at least you have many thousands of absolutely netcaught fish to choose from anyway.

 

[cortez marine]

I would like to offer a Filipino net training team to convert the quinaldine using dopers in Florida.
They should be ashamed of themselves to be out collected, out witted and out played by EVERY diver from Hawaii, Tonga, Vanuatu, Solomons, Fiji, PNG, Australia, the Marshall Islands, Tahiti, Kiribati, Ghana, Kenya, Saudi, Mexico, Belize and Brazil.

Steve
PS. The "Floridian bubba factor" is uniquely American.....really.

 

[eolthof]

Steve, I think you're missing the point. The idea is to build an entire reef display of specimins that have not come off of a reef at all, regardless of how they were caught.

I agree that we in the hobby should try and avoid cyanide caught specimins to discourage the practice, but that's not the point of this project or this thread.

 

[cortez marine]

How does one select net-collected fish?

Just answering the question.
Steve

 

[eolthof]

Why not just buy net collected fish?

Steve

I meant this bit...

 

[cortez marine]

I'm wondering how limited my fish selcetion would be, or am I going to end up with a tank full of clownfish.

On ethical grounds alone; you can stock netcaught fish to go along with the limited selection.

 

[crsaz]

your selection will be limited with only captive raised fish but there are still quite few species to choose from(more if you include tank raised but not bred ie. collected as larva and raised to sellable size)

Im sure if you look hard enough you will be able to find some t.r. tangs and maybe even captive bred centropyge angels.

 

[49.35 North]

I ran across the "Marine Ornamental Fish and Invertebrate Breeders Association" here http://www.marinebreeder.org/. They have a marketplace forum. I didn't see any recent posts offering inverts for sale but you try posting and seeing if you get any response.

 

[clownfreak]

You can get captive breed peppermint shrimp fairly easily, even pistol shrimp I think. I know it is possible to breed coral banded shrimp but they are very demanding and difficult. Same with Harlequin shrimp, most are not successful with them. I think your best bet is to get on a local breeding forum (such as masm for Michigan) and see what your local breeders have to offer. Mofib (marinebreeder.org) typically only has broodstock, not their product for sale. I believe there is a list going on on there about what species have been captive breed.

 

[Vadimshevchuk]

That is an awesome idea:eek2:

 

[eolthof]

Thanks for all of the good info guys.

 

[lordofthereef]

I know a nearby LFS claimed he could get tank bred kole and yellow tangs. ORA now has the mandarins (which apparently can still be hard to get to eat so I am not necessarily recommending this) and of course clowns. I think now is the time that much headway is being made on tank-bred and tank raised livestock and that we will see many more species available in this manner over the next ten or so years. For the here and now, I think you are going to be relatively limited in your selection simply because there isn't a huge variety. I do commend you for your efforts and would be interested in seeing what you come up with!

 

[lordofthereef]

I did a quick google search. Might check them out. They have a ton of gobies and belnnies on their lists too. Not sure if they are all tank-raised or bred, but their big claim is that they tank raise livestock.

http://www.proaquatix.com/allspecies.asp

 

[eolthof]

I did a quick google search. Might check them out. They have a ton of gobies and belnnies on their lists too. Not sure if they are all tank-raised or bred, but their big claim is that they tank raise livestock.

http://www.proaquatix.com/allspecies.asp

Wow, that's not a bad list. I wonder about shipping to Calgary though. I'll dig into it.

There are some decent looking fish on the list, like the split-tail blenny. My tank is going to be largly SPS + LPS, and I was planning to have a fairly light bio-load already. I did have some schooling bannerfish in mind, but this list might help sway to to committting to go all non-reef.

Thanks.

 

[eolthof]

This might be an issue...

"Proaquatix supplies fish to retail pet stores, aquarium specialty stores, aquarium maintenance businesses, wholesale businesses, and public aquariums. We do not sell to hobbyists. If you are interested in purchasing for your business, please complete the 2 STEPS below to register as a customer."