facewedgie
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+ Occupation: Microbiologist
The Oceans pH Level Is Falling
- Thread starter RobbyG
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+ Occupation: Microbiologist
facewedgie
New member
whew! glad to know i am gonna be ok. who cares about my children, right?
poedag
New member
i would say even further into the future is when the real fallout will start to show. but i'd rather have the issue looked at/discussed now, and start to take action sooner rather than later. if your car is making a funny noise, wouldn't you rather have it looked at and fixed if need be than wait until your wheel falls off on the freeway?
Nu2SW
New member
I understand what you mean, but global warming... Come on what do you expect yeah its gonna be hotter then a few thousand years ago. There are a crap load more people and things we call cars. SO yeah its gonna be different. its gonna take hundreds and hundreds of years for something to go wrong.
sherm71tank
Premium Member
I really don't know one way or the other what kind of effect humanity is having on global warming and changes in the oceans. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. Should we try to look at the problem objectively? I certainly hope so. I for one do care about what kind of world is left behind for our children, and it makes me sad that so many people have such a disregard for it. Perhaps we deserve to get cooked off of the earth?
poedag
New member
i'm certainly not saying that it isn't hotter now or will be than it has been in the past. through ice core and sedimint core recronstruction it has been shown that several times existed when CO2 was much higher (jurassic) and much lower (miocene) than present levels. the temp has also been much higher and lower than present levels. the worrysome/concerning thing isn't the initial or predicted value, but rather the rate of change. It is true that rapid climate change has occured in the past, but it's still not to the scale at which we are currently seeing, especially ambient CO2 values. as values have increased, the effects are allready being seen, i.e. a lowering of PH in the oceans, measured in decades not millenia. it is true that there are certain climactic occilations exist on almost every time series from diurnal, to 7years like el nino, to PDO, to milankovitch cycles that we can't even control, but the rate of change that we are currently observing from locations like the keeling observatory in HI, have not been seen before in the geoloci record.
wow that was long winded, sorry. but better safe than sorry, same reason i run UV on my tank, just in case.
What makes you so sure of this? If pollutant emissions continue to increase exponentially (as they have been doing), then the effects will occur sooner than you think. We can already see the effects of our polluting - What about the increased numbers of hurricanes last year in the US. Over here in England we are facing a drought crisis due the abnormally dry winter, and this comes just a year after 3000 people in France died of heat exhaustion etc because of the extraordinarily hot summer they had. The monsoons in India have failed increasingly often in the last century, and a climactic shift of 250km on a NW->SE axis is predicted in the next 50 years. There is overwhelming evidence that climate change - global warming - is happening, and that it is affecting us. To suggest that it is not an immediate concern that needs addressing is both ridiculous and irrational.
physicslord
New member
Why is it "we"?
I have respect for it. So do many other people on this forum.
That would make it really easy. Then you could just dismiss what I say out of hand.
et al:
I have presented the opposing viewpoint on global warming because someone has to. I do not claim that there is no such thing. I say there are questions. And in context of the topic of this post, to say anthropogenic global warming is a fact, , without scrutiny, is just as dangerous as not doing anything.
Global warming may be the cause of reefs bleaching, it may be the cause of pH swings. But what if it isn't? You have applied a diagnosis to the problem without examining alternative causation. And in turn, the wrong treatment. What if a doctor diagnosed your sore throat as strep and gave you antibiotics but it was really throat cancer?
I am a scientist by trade. I am surprised at other scientists posting here who are not concerned about the pass climatologists get on scientific method. As scientists aren't't you concerned when a prediction is off by 400% after attempting to validate it through scientific experimentation? Don't you go ***, when after examination of 100 ice cores, only the findings of 3 that support the theory are published? Doesn't preconceptual science insult your intelligence?
Why can't climatologists validate their credentials on a smaller scale before expecting us to believe them on a massive scale? The most significant phenomenon effecting the whether today is the el nino. Yet climatologists cannot predict them. When they will happen, their strength, or the effect they will have on the weather. Wouldn't that be a nice smaller test. Do that, and then we'll talk about Global climate. Doesn't that sound reasonable? After all, we are talking about trillions of dollars and possible economic collapse of nations to significantly fix this problem. Its not as simple as just buying a hybrid car.
Do any of you know how easily your duped? Did you know that the theory that the polar ice caps melting, dumping freshwater into the ocean and disrupting the currents. You know the theory I'm talking about? It is not accepted by most of the scientific community. It is pretty much only believed by the ones who developed it. Yet everyone repeats it and they even made a movie. "The Day After Tomorrow". Interesting?
And one more little tid bit of info. The Earth is on, historically speaking, a 60 year cycle. Record heat in the late 30's was followed by record cold in the 70's followed again by record heat in the late 90's. This cycle can be seen back to the mini ice age of the middle ages. Since we are now going to be on the down slope of that trend, I wonder what the GW scientists and Algore are going to say as the Earth cools for the next 30 years????
Even the Climatologist and Algore would tell you that what you have discribed is not evidence but anecdotal. Just as a record cold day in the winter does not disprove the theory. Also, hurricane experts were quick to point out that the number and intensity of last years hurricanes were predicted and cyclical and have no link to global warming. The ones making the link were not the predominant hurricane experts.
"Its hot outside" is not a scientific experiment.
Mike
poedag
New member
forgive me, but isn't that what peer-reviewed literature is supposed to accomplish. all we are capable of as researchers is something that is validated by our peers. and then re-tested over and over. fake papers and bogus think tanks on both sides of the argument don't do anyone any good. only real research can accomplish that. when an article makes it into science, that is a step in the right direction. when an article is written and then just cited over and over again withour peer-review, it doesn't posess any scientific merit.
Of course you right and you've said this many times. Problem is, most of what you site is not peer reviewed and does not meet scientific standards. You just assumed they did. Many of them published first in Time magazine, USA Today, or PBS.
Also, keep in mind that much of science today is political. In order to get published, a scientist must toe the line. And since for a scientist getting published is survival, most do.
Maybe on its own, a single freak event is dismissable. But there are trends in the number and size of these events that lead me (and many other people) to believe that there is an underlying cause linking all of them.
We must also remember that without global warming the temperature of the Earth would be some 34 degrees centigrade cooler (as calculated by supercomputers etc) - so your argument that global warming is not occuring is perhaps the wrong way to address the issue - what you mean is that human activity has a minor, if not negligable effect on the Earth's climate and the rate of global warming.
The theory behind global warming (about the greenhouse gas layer allowing the high frequency insolation into the Earth's atmosphere, but preventing the low frequency outgoing radiation leaving the Earth's atmosphere by absorbing it and re-radiating it back. And how human activities such as burning fossil fuels increase the thickness of this greenhouse gas layer) is convincing, and I am sure will have been tested and confirmed in a lab (e.g. by directing electromagnetic waves through a container filled with CO2 and measuring the absorption rate). Since scientists have detected an increase in the thickness of the greenhouse gas layer which correlates with the increase in mechanisation and standard of living increase, this is fairly compelling evidence, if not a proof, of global warming's existence.
We must also remember that without global warming the temperature of the Earth would be some 34 degrees centigrade cooler (as calculated by supercomputers etc) - so your argument that global warming is not occuring is perhaps the wrong way to address the issue - what you mean is that human activity has a minor, if not negligable effect on the Earth's climate and the rate of global warming.
The theory behind global warming (about the greenhouse gas layer allowing the high frequency insolation into the Earth's atmosphere, but preventing the low frequency outgoing radiation leaving the Earth's atmosphere by absorbing it and re-radiating it back. And how human activities such as burning fossil fuels increase the thickness of this greenhouse gas layer) is convincing, and I am sure will have been tested and confirmed in a lab (e.g. by directing electromagnetic waves through a container filled with CO2 and measuring the absorption rate). Since scientists have detected an increase in the thickness of the greenhouse gas layer which correlates with the increase in mechanisation and standard of living increase, this is fairly compelling evidence, if not a proof, of global warming's existence.
physicslord
New member
Serious???Massive extinction, including complete loss of coral reefs.
Changes in weather patterns, famine, etc....
eckrynock
Premium Member
WWWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!
I thought conservatives were close minded?? I just got attacked by about 10 people because my occupation says microbiologist and I don't believe in evolution. Amazing. Just so you know, there are other scientists who believe in a Creator. So please, watch your slander!
I thought conservatives were close minded?? I just got attacked by about 10 people because my occupation says microbiologist and I don't believe in evolution. Amazing. Just so you know, there are other scientists who believe in a Creator. So please, watch your slander!
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