The problem with the internet

[intricable]

is that its hard to say "I'm asking this question in a calm and informative manner, without any nastiness or other implied rudeness." So with that in mind, I have a question. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just am curious as to the answer.

Last week, I posted about a friend who is breaking down his tank. He had asked Greg and I if we were interested (sigh, no fish tanks for us) but we politely declined. I mentioned I would bring it up to the club - i had encouraged him to join many times- and would forward club members contact information on to him if there was interest in his livestock or equipment. I understand I am not allowed to sell for other people, but I had no intention of haggling/selling/being part of the transaction aside from "here's his email address, best of luck". Its commonly mentioned that some one saw an ad on craigslist for a tank or livestock, so what is the difference? I know the tank is going on craigslist in the near future (but livestock is going to be unloaded to an LFS that I'm not fond of before then if there are no takers)- would it be better for me to wait and just post the CL link?

 

[jmkarcz]

Ok... I think there are several issues at hand... here are the big ones I see.

I think you need something like more than 100 posts to sell.. that stops people from just joining and selling and never using the board for what is was meant for, exchanging information. This also stops "fly by night" and un-respectable people from showing up and screwing RC members, since, just like the reasons I would more likely buy an item from a seller of 5000 items over a seller of 2 or 3 on ebay or amazon.

If you buy something from my friend, who you don't know, what is your recourse if it goes south...? Notta. On RC, there is "some" way for that reputation to linger and warn others... or to check up on people.


Secondly, it stops you from brokering things for sale. Quite frankly, I beleive it's against the rules to even buy something with the intent to resell it here, so you buying it and reselling it would be an oops as well.


Third. I think you are guilty of the same thing I was when I got busted. You were both HONEST and FORTH COMMING with information..... AND you tried to help someone else.


I would recommend that your friend put it on craigslist and then you can post one of those messages with... look! a tank for sale on craigs list.... messages.

Unfortunatly, to protect the public, and RC, the rules are vague and blanketing, and they sometimes (mostly) can find a reason/problem with most posts.

...and the biggest reason.... I think is that RC is really not for selling. It's for information sharing and to be centered around the hobby. There are enough other placed to peddle your wares, or the wares of your friends before you should turn to RC. (By that I mean, someone was selling yugio cards and exercise equipment in this forum... it's fist/hobby related.... stuff you own, after you have been here long enough and are past the probationary period.... and stuff your not reselling as a business.... and most of all.... needs a price attached in the thread - otherwise your just fishing for a sucker buyer you can bleed their wallet. You also failed to mention Where it was....


If I was you... and I mean this with calm respect, I would visit the selling forum and look at the good threads and the bad ones. Look at the ones that people post, then someone has to ask about where they are... and then someone asks for a price... and then someone asks for pictures... and then they can't contact the seller....


Dang... my dinner is cold now!

Respectfully

Jason


answered in a calm and informative manner...

 

[jmkarcz]

Just a recommendation... why dosen't your friend find out what they are going to get from the LFS for the stock, then post pictures for fish that need a home... with say... names of the fish and prices.... reasonable enough to move them in a hurry....


and you should post a few more times to get above that minimum... think it's 100, but I could be wrong....

 

[Hens4Fish]

I think its 50, but they dont let you sell for someone else. Dont know why, but your ideas make sense.

 

[jlinzmaier]

The points you made are all very valid Jason.

I must repeat - RC is first and foremost for information sharing!! Take a look at the various threads in the FVRC forum. Quick guess, maybe 75% of the threads are about people selling or wanting to buy stuff. I'm honestly surprised RC still leaves the FVRC forum open with that much traffic primarily for sales. Trust me, I appreciate being able to buy used stuff and livestock so readily, but I'm surprised more threads don't get shut down and more people don't get booted becuase they're only here to sell stuff. Be sure to look at it from RC's perspective also. Imagine the crap they have to deal with becuase of shady deals and shady people abusing the forum to make a buck.

Please know that none of this is directed towards you intricable. I think you were trying to do a good thing but simply broke rules that were established because of other people's abuse of the forum.

I'm sure I'll get roasted the next time I try to buy or sell something but that's OK. Those who frequent the boards can look at my posts and clearly see my primary intent on RC is to learn and share what I've learned. Not the case for many of us.

Jeremy

 

[intricable]

Thanks for the insight everyone. I understand the desire to avoid those fly by night folks, but I've been to some of your houses... so, yeah.... I guess no one trusts anyone anymore. Maybe it would be helpful to RC if they selected a member of local clubs to ALSO be a moderator on individual club forums. Then, if a shady person comes around making a bunch of noise about a load of nothing the local moderator would be able to spot it right away.

Anyway, I have advised our friend to use another medium for selling his livestock and equipment. In fact, its seems to have been quite successful so far so I'm happy for him.

 

[jlinzmaier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15362818#post15362818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by intricable
Maybe it would be helpful to RC if they selected a member of local clubs to ALSO be a moderator on individual club forums. Then, if a shady person comes around making a bunch of noise about a load of nothing the local moderator would be able to spot it right away.

Well the trouble is we're not a club, therefore nobody and everybody is in charge. That concept doesn't allow for a moderator within the group becuase that would give them power over everyone else in the group.

Jeremy

 

[jmkarcz]

This took about 40 minutes... but I think it will echo what I was stating and that Jeremy backed up...

42% of our threads are about buying and selling. This did NOT include organizing group buys. This thread was classified as "relevant discussion. I will be more than happy to provide the breakdown, but you can see how our club utilized RC... mostly for buying and selling our junk...

This is as of 12 midnight today... the last 100 current post threads in our forum only...

<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/temp/?action=view&current=Nonames.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/temp/Nonames.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[mako56]

Wow Jason, looks like your ready for the corporate world. Very impressive.

 

[jlinzmaier]

I don't want to point anyone out, but I think if you broke down those posts you'd find a trend that unfortunately shows that it's the same people often posting the selling, buying trading and then another group of people posting info or asking questions. You'd have to do a much larger scale of posts to get a good reading, but I'm sure it would be very consistent and very revealing to whom is using the forum for what purpose.

Please don't make a graph on that Jason. It may be hurtful to have people pointed out in a negative connotation and I don't want that. I'm just trying to make the point to help people understand what RC is intended for and maybe help those who use it for other things would appreciate it more and have more respect for it than they do.

Jeremy

**edit***
Just to be clear. I don't think buying, selling, or trading within the group is bad. It's a huge benefit for the group and saves us all a lot of money. It's bad for RC when people use RC primarily as a means of profit through buying and selling. Most people don't understand the RC perspective when they get in trouble for doing such a thing. I know there are a few that have tried to do very good things for the FVRC group but RC restrictions were applied to that person for looking commercial. The unfortunate side to that situation is that RC wasn't being used with malicious or ill intent for profit, but the people who have done that in the past are the ones for whom the rules were created for. Unfortunately those rules then blanketed someone who was really trying to do good for the group thus creating a negative impact on all of us.

Jeremy

 

[jmkarcz]

Thats funny... before I even got to the second paragraph I was thinking... yeah... the data is there... that would only take about 20 seconds....

J