the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many

[The Cardinal]

Interesting read.

It would be great if someone with a stable tank would alter the KH over a period of around 4 weeks and document possible changes in color. For example from 8 up to 10 (and then back again). All other parameters kept unchanged as far as possible. Anyone up for the task ?

In my experience dosing iron will intensify the green coloration in many sps species.

 

[rgfast]

Interesting read.

It would be great if someone with a stable tank would alter the KH over a period of around 4 weeks and document possible changes in color. For example from 8 up to 10 (and then back again). All other parameters kept unchanged as far as possible. Anyone up for the task ?

In my experience dosing iron will intensify the green coloration in many sps species.

having done this before I can tell you that I get best colors when I maintain my Alk level below 8 with par readings from my LEDs around 225 ( I take my par reading @ 12" below water surface ) I've tried par levels of 500 @ peek daylight miday but found lower to be better

 

[sahin]

Can the earlier posters post updates as to how their corals are doing? -what actions did they do that led to improved coloration or less paleness in their sps?

 

[anthony27]

Interesting

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Hi there

I did go from 10 to 8 in alkalinity.

All other parameters kept stable.

Salt 1,028
Ph 8,0-8,2
No3 0,5
Po4 <0,03
Temp 24-26
Ca now stabil at 440
Mg 1450

It did do a lot for the colors, but even more with growthrate and PE on my SPS.

It took a while for me to finetune the system(ca went to 480) but I have "found" my KH values
Very happy to see this huge change, for such small effort.....

So thank you very much Kevinsquint and RC - this was better and cheaper than new products from company X

Peder

 

[henrystyle]

I see alot of you are claiming extremely low nitrate and phosphate levels. Im telling you now if you are using Salifert kits to test both, you are wasting your time. Nitrates almost always test to 0 and the P04 kit is way off.
IMO P04 hanna checker for phosphate and a red sea nitrate test kit are best...most accurate. Just my 2 cheap cents.

 

[coralsnaked]

I think a lot of people are going to have to make changes in their systems to include more nutrients in the water column if they want to run these extreme LED systems that are far brighter than MH systems ever were. I have been experimenting w/ LED - VHO-MH comparisons on my frag tanks. All tanks have a PAR at the surface of ~ 55 and are linked so nutrient levels are basically the same on all three tanks. I run middle of the road on NO3 < .25 and PO4 <.02 w/ a margin of error on both at .02 as I utilize RS Pro testing equipment. So levels could be at times as high as .04 or as low as ~ 0.0, but I believe the avg to be as stated.

I was most interested in growth rates and what I have found is for growth nothing beats MH @ 6500kw, and the jury is still out for best coloration. I have seen nothing to indicate that any of the 3 types of lighting source proved to have any effect on color growth. Not to be confused w/ viewing the corals. But in setting up the system, I did have to initially reduce the intensity of the LED source as it initially produced nearly 70PAR at the surface and hurt the corals coming off the MH system. Now that everything has been in equilibrium for 3 months I will also begin to look at colors and report back to thread in the future after making some small changes in PAR equal to 5 PAR +/- while holding nutrient levels = .

 

[Reefin' Dude]

are we talking about inorganic nutrient levels or organic nutrient levels?

i have no doubt that the more light one puts over a tank the more organically bound phosphates need to be added. i do not think the inorganic phosphates levels matter as long as they are within oligotrophic levels. a PO4 level of 0.02 is still way above the oligotrophic level of 0.009ppm.

G~

 

[JPMagyar]

having done this before I can tell you that I get best colors when I maintain my Alk level below 8 with par readings from my LEDs around 225 ( I take my par reading @ 12" below water surface ) I've tried par levels of 500 @ peek daylight miday but found lower to be better

Love to see some pictures of the color in your tank.

 

[JPMagyar]

I think a lot of people are going to have to make changes in their systems to include more nutrients in the water column if they want to run these extreme LED systems that are far brighter than MH systems ever were. I have been experimenting w/ LED - VHO-MH comparisons on my frag tanks. All tanks have a PAR at the surface of ~ 55 and are linked so nutrient levels are basically the same on all three tanks. I run middle of the road on NO3 < .25 and PO4 <.02 w/ a margin of error on both at .02 as I utilize RS Pro testing equipment. So levels could be at times as high as .04 or as low as ~ 0.0, but I believe the avg to be as stated.

I was most interested in growth rates and what I have found is for growth nothing beats MH @ 6500kw,

Your observations are in direct opposition to actual research that has been published so if you have any photo evidence to support this statement I would be most interested.

Also, how do you define LEDs as being "brighter". What meter did you use? Is it calibrated for LEDs? The problem is that the primary meter on the market is an Apogee, and that particular manufacturer in no way envisioned the advent of LEDs and has built their meters using a smoothing algorithm that anticipates sunlight or fluorescent light. LED light is not properly measured. Plus we have little knowledge on what happens when we flood corals with specific wavelengths instead of a broad spectrum of wavelengths.

My primary point here is that I feel like you are making comments with a sense of authority that are in no way yet explained in scientific literature. You may very well be right, but I remain doubtful.



Now as to the OP

My tank has varied from 12 to 5 dKH and the color did not change. I do believe that stable alkalinity is a key to colorful coral, but raising alkalinity above that which exists in nature does not change the color of coral of that I am sure.
Joe :beer:

P.S. My tank . . .

 

[jerpa]

What meter did you use? Is it calibrated for LEDs? The problem is that the primary meter on the market is an Apogee, and that particular manufacturer in no way envisioned the advent of LEDs and has built their meters using a smoothing algorithm that anticipates sunlight or fluorescent light. LED light is not properly measured. Plus we have little knowledge on what happens when we flood corals with specific wavelengths instead of a broad spectrum of wavelengths.

I agree with your statement but I disagree with where it leads. The Apogee sensor has a smoothing algorithm to correct defficiencies in the sensor itself. The meter will report low for any light source with a strong component of light below 500nm. It will also read any light over 600nm as more powerful than it should. However, the differences only equate to 10% of the light from those sources. If you take par readings of an LED fixture you only need to correct the readings from your blue LEDs by 10%. This means the overall error factor will generally be around 5-7%. If you have red LEDs present in the fixture the error will be even smaller. This is a trivial difference when you factor in other sources of error. It will also be a factor when measuring high kelvin metal halide bulbs and actinic/blue T5 bulbs.

The last sentence I agree with completely.

 

[shaggss]

Your observations are in direct opposition to actual research that has been published so if you have any photo evidence to support this statement I would be most interested.

Also, how do you define LEDs as being "brighter". What meter did you use? Is it calibrated for LEDs? The problem is that the primary meter on the market is an Apogee, and that particular manufacturer in no way envisioned the advent of LEDs and has built their meters using a smoothing algorithm that anticipates sunlight or fluorescent light. LED light is not properly measured. Plus we have little knowledge on what happens when we flood corals with specific wavelengths instead of a broad spectrum of wavelengths.

My primary point here is that I feel like you are making comments with a sense of authority that are in no way yet explained in scientific literature. You may very well be right, but I remain doubtful.



Now as to the OP

My tank has varied from 12 to 5 dKH and the color did not change. I do believe that stable alkalinity is a key to colorful coral, but raising alkalinity above that which exists in nature does not change the color of coral of that I am sure.
Joe :beer:

P.S. My tank . . .

JP

You have a very nice tank, well done!

PS Your homepage link does not work, do you have a build thread on RC?

 

[Pederreefnerd]

Your observations are in direct opposition to actual research that has been published so if you have any photo evidence to support this statement I would be most interested.

Also, how do you define LEDs as being "brighter". What meter did you use? Is it calibrated for LEDs? The problem is that the primary meter on the market is an Apogee, and that particular manufacturer in no way envisioned the advent of LEDs and has built their meters using a smoothing algorithm that anticipates sunlight or fluorescent light. LED light is not properly measured. Plus we have little knowledge on what happens when we flood corals with specific wavelengths instead of a broad spectrum of wavelengths.

My primary point here is that I feel like you are making comments with a sense of authority that are in no way yet explained in scientific literature. You may very well be right, but I remain doubtful.



Now as to the OP

My tank has varied from 12 to 5 dKH and the color did not change. I do believe that stable alkalinity is a key to colorful coral, but raising alkalinity above that which exists in nature does not change the color of coral of that I am sure.
Joe :beer:

P.S. My tank . . .

me like:bounce1:

 

[kissman]

Your observations are in direct opposition to actual research that has been published so if you have any photo evidence to support this statement I would be most interested.

Also, how do you define LEDs as being "brighter". What meter did you use? Is it calibrated for LEDs? The problem is that the primary meter on the market is an Apogee, and that particular manufacturer in no way envisioned the advent of LEDs and has built their meters using a smoothing algorithm that anticipates sunlight or fluorescent light. LED light is not properly measured. Plus we have little knowledge on what happens when we flood corals with specific wavelengths instead of a broad spectrum of wavelengths.

My primary point here is that I feel like you are making comments with a sense of authority that are in no way yet explained in scientific literature. You may very well be right, but I remain doubtful.



Now as to the OP

My tank has varied from 12 to 5 dKH and the color did not change. I do believe that stable alkalinity is a key to colorful coral, but raising alkalinity above that which exists in nature does not change the color of coral of that I am sure.
Joe :beer:

P.S. My tank . . .

JP that is one of the nicest tanks I have ever seen! I come back and look at that tank atleast 4 times a week! Come set my tank up, lol! I know you were helping me on my thread and I appreciate it! Hope I can get mine that nice! In cycle now

 

[acroman]

Well for the past year...

... fed the tank more, after a few weeks, algae started to grow...

This sounds like the reason, not alk.

When you replaced the gfo, and such, did you cut down on feeding?

 

[.Marshall]

Still trying to find the sweet spot for my reef.. I have good color on my SPS, but I want AMAZING, DEEP, RICH color.

6x54w ATI Powermodule
75g display

Big Skimmer
Filter Sock
Live Rock/Chaeto

Phosphates: .05 via Hanna checker
Alk: 8.0 via Hanna checker
Nitrates: Dont test for Nitrates ZERO bad algae growth anywhere.

Wondering if I should try A). More fish (I only have 6) B). Feed more, nutrient export more. C). Feed less, thus lower phosphates to undetectable.

 

[Reefin' Dude]

with a substrate you are going to have export more issues. the substrate is going to be your largest and best phosphate sink. you will always be battling the feed enough to make the corals happy, but not to much to raise the phosphate leaching from the substrate above mesotrophic/oligotrophic levels.

my vote would be B, unless A also means you will be feeding more food, then either of those choices should help in getting more food to the corals.

G~

 

[kissman]

I have just redone my tank and used a 1" sand bed. I plan on cleaning some of the sand bed every week when I do my water change. Will def clean the top layer.

 

[.Marshall]

with a substrate you are going to have export more issues. the substrate is going to be your largest and best phosphate sink. you will always be battling the feed enough to make the corals happy, but not to much to raise the phosphate leaching from the substrate above mesotrophic/oligotrophic levels.

my vote would be B, unless A also means you will be feeding more food, then either of those choices should help in getting more food to the corals.

G~

I siphon my sandbed every 2-3 weeks. Do you still think it would be an issue?

I guess if A I would be feeding a little more (volume not frequency) but not too much, its not like I would be adding another tang.

I guess my question is if I raise phosphates, do you think the nice deep color will increase? I have more than enough light, im just questioning wheather I bring more light or back off the light a little bit to get that deep color.

 

[yitman]

great thread

I am using bioPlastic
NO3=0 (salifert)
Po4 =0.00 (hanna)
Kh=7.3-7.7 (salifert)

using CBalance to mantain KH,CA, MG levels
some of my corals Paled
and I am feeding a lot
I start dosing AcroPower 3 weeks ago and it's helps but it's Insufficient
I descided to decrease the Bioplastic in order to raise the No3 ,Po4 levels