The transition to "au natural"

[scottnichols]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11304273#post11304273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Frick-n-Frags
I used to meditate on an archimedes screw (NO that's not a new mixed drink ) to fill a surge bucket in a way to not run everything through an impeller, then cascade the multiple tanks, so each overflows the next

I'm building an "in-wall" tank that is going to use an archimedes screw and "Carlson" surge device. Luckily, I'm putting the filtration system in a dedicated fish room behind the tank because to get four feet of lift, I needed to make the screw 10 feet long! I put the pump together first and tested it with my cordless driver as a temporary motor to make sure it worked. I got about 4000 GPH out of it in a test run, but it maxed out the little motor. I have a permanent gear motor ordered for it and have started work on the tank. I had a small 55 gallon reef tank from 1990 to 1995, but took it down to move, and one thing after another kept me from getting back into the hobby. I'm playing catch up now, and would appreciate any advice you could give regarding skimmerless/non-centrifical pump systems

 

[geoxman]

bump as I would also be interested

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11313306#post11313306 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by webbstock
By inert, I mean one that doesn't have brass parts that contact the SW so as not leach metals into the tank (or chemicals etc.)

The coralife pump is a centrifugal pump, which means it has an impeller which can "chop" things up. Diaphragm pumps use a bellows like system to move water via positive displacement, which wouldn't grind up your pods etc. However there is a slight surging effect from single bellow pumps.
This is an example of an air-driven diaphragm pump:
Single

This is a double bellows and no surging

Double

are these pumps ok to use with salt water?

we discussed the idea of pods etc being chopped up by the impellers--the consensus was that they wouldn't be.

 

[geoxman]

I do not see why they would not suffice in SW. From what I am reading? There are no impellers so it would seem very pod and phyto friendly. Does any one else have an input on these pumps?
The diagram for the double is very interesting when watching it work.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526139#post11526139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by geoxman
I do not see why they would not suffice in SW. From what I am reading? There are no impellers so it would seem very pod and phyto friendly. Does any one else have an input on these pumps?
The diagram for the double is very interesting when watching it work.

perhaps you should re post in the hardware section and start a thread on it ?

 

[erikages]

Hi, all.



I'm setting up a new refugium (20 gals). I'm running a mature tank (7 years) with a deep sand bed and stable, healthy chemistry.



Here's my question: should I keep this new tank off line (e.g. not being fed and draining into the main system) until it goes through nitrication cycle. Will it go through a cycle like this if fed by 120 gals of established reef and water flow?



I'll be placing established live rock and a new bag of "live" agragonite sand into the refugium and plan to let it all settle out before planting it and setting up some algae screens.



So: recommendations. Let it sit pretty and stinky before linking in, or will the established tank manage the new load and any nitrification cycle that occurrs?



Also, any recommendations on lighting? I plan to do reverse daylight (as I do with my sump).



Thanks for any advice you might have!



Erik

 

[jadeguppy]

Here is a great thread on fuges:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1258724
There is also information on reefkeeper magazine this month under the sumps article (homepage).
As to lights, I am using 6500k WalMart bought pigtail light in a $7 clip on shop spot light over a 15g cube fuge. This is a common set up.

 

[Mental1]

I had an idea about a sump/fuge that I would like to bounce off of you all! I was attracted to the idea of adding more water volume with a basement sump/fuge. I was thinking about having my 20g long still house the skimmer and then have it gravity feed into a much larger tank that would have different sections, the middle one having mud in it. I have gotten stuck because of flow considerations and some negative talk about mud -- having to replace it. Do the mangroves eliminate the issue of mud replacement? Anyway -- here's a drawing that is sort of what I am thinking about (drawing done by a reefer buddy who was helping with ideas -- Jason has a wonderful SPS tank).

 

[erikages]

Looks like a great idea. Sort of what I'll be doing - e.g., adding more water volume -- but I'll be pumping UV-sterilized water (after skimming / minimual ozone / carbon then mild UV up into a refugium that will gravity-feed back into my main tank.

Anything to add more water volume.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11581429#post11581429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jadeguppy
Here is a great thread on fuges:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1258724
There is also information on reefkeeper magazine this month under the sumps article (homepage).
As to lights, I am using 6500k WalMart bought pigtail light in a $7 clip on shop spot light over a 15g cube fuge. This is a common set up.

I think the pics on the first page of this thread are almost the same as you have pictured

 

[Aquarist007]

Here's my question: should I keep this new tank off line (e.g. not being fed and draining into the main system) until it goes through nitrication cycle. Will it go through a cycle like this if fed by 120 gals of established reef and water flow?

I'll be placing established live rock and a new bag of "live" agragonite sand into the refugium and plan to let it all settle out before planting it and setting up some algae screens.
So: recommendations. Let it sit pretty and stinky before linking in, or will the established tank manage the new load and any nitrification cycle that occurrs?
Also, any recommendations on lighting? I plan to do reverse daylight (as I do with my sump).

Thanks for any advice you might have!

Erik [/B]

if you are using established live rock and water there will not be much of a cyle to worry about

don't waste your money on live sand--you just need one cup from the main tank to seed it with

I would add the cheato and keep the light on 24/7 for a few months to get a rapid good growth with the cheato. It can handle this kind of light period----don't use caulerpa--it could go sexual with 24/7 light.

 

[Mental1]

With the mangroves -- do you have to replace the mud? Or does that become a mute point as you are looking for more from the mangroves versus the mud? Just curious because to me the thing that's keeping me from going ahead is the issue of mud replacement. The miracle mud site advocates growing caluerpa and of course doing the mud replacement every 2 years. I would prefer to not add another skimmer if possible .... but want to figure out as many of the nuances as possible ...

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11589136#post11589136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
With the mangroves -- do you have to replace the mud? Or does that become a mute point as you are looking for more from the mangroves versus the mud? Just curious because to me the thing that's keeping me from going ahead is the issue of mud replacement. The miracle mud site advocates growing caluerpa and of course doing the mud replacement every 2 years. I would prefer to not add another skimmer if possible .... but want to figure out as many of the nuances as possible ...

This post has already been linked to but it is excellent:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1258496

I did alot of research before xmas and have decided to go with the deepsand bed instead of the miracle mud---the mud is really to harbor some critters that live in it--the mangroves will grow quite well in a deep sand bed

 

[Mental1]

So I am getting closer to setting up my basement sump and fuge. I have a 75g used tank, I have the right size pump and I have my husband as a volunteer. But I am having a hard time with just what to add for my natural filtration. As I am not adding to the bioload -- only the water volume, I think going this way is very safe. I was thinking of doing both mud and dsb and having several sections in the fuge. Is this overkill? I was reading info on the guy in London David Saxby and he uses sugar sand and caluerpa sertularioides and gets the same impact as miracle mud with the critters it hosts. Then there is the concern of it going sexual??? Is that only if you do the 24/7 lighting? I am leaning towards doing this as the prospect of changing mud out every two years doesn't excite me. I could still do two sections and have one for the caulerpa and one for chaeto??? Both with dsb with the sugar sand? Any feedback?

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11699278#post11699278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
So I am getting closer to setting up my basement sump and fuge. I have a 75g used tank, I have the right size pump and I have my husband as a volunteer. But I am having a hard time with just what to add for my natural filtration. As I am not adding to the bioload -- only the water volume, I think going this way is very safe. I was thinking of doing both mud and dsb and having several sections in the fuge. Is this overkill? I was reading info on the guy in London David Saxby and he uses sugar sand and caluerpa sertularioides and gets the same impact as miracle mud with the critters it hosts. Then there is the concern of it going sexual??? Is that only if you do the 24/7 lighting? I am leaning towards doing this as the prospect of changing mud out every two years doesn't excite me. I could still do two sections and have one for the caulerpa and one for chaeto??? Both with dsb with the sugar sand? Any feedback?

Sherri----you don't get that much filtration advantage out of miracle mud---it more to increase the variety of inverts in your system that live in it. As far as supporting mangroves--they can do just as well in a sand bed as in miracle mud--besides it is expensive
I may just get a little for the reasons I just mentioned

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11699278#post11699278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
So I am getting closer to setting up my basement sump and fuge. I have a 75g used tank, I have the right size pump and I have my husband as a volunteer. But I am having a hard time with just what to add for my natural filtration. As I am not adding to the bioload -- only the water volume, I think going this way is very safe. I was thinking of doing both mud and dsb and having several sections in the fuge. Is this overkill? I was reading info on the guy in London David Saxby and he uses sugar sand and caluerpa sertularioides and gets the same impact as miracle mud with the critters it hosts. Then there is the concern of it going sexual??? Is that only if you do the 24/7 lighting? I am leaning towards doing this as the prospect of changing mud out every two years doesn't excite me. I could still do two sections and have one for the caulerpa and one for chaeto??? Both with dsb with the sugar sand? Any feedback?

IMO I would not use caulerpa at all---it takes or everything in the tank if it gets in there. It can also go sexual with too much light---produce spores very rapidly that can deplete the oxygen in a tank in a matter of hours and cause a system crash

Cheato is so much less riskier for going sexual, you can run a light 24/7 and it grows like stink. As the cheato ball gets thicker it also catches alot of organics and detrius which is a further filtration plus.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11699278#post11699278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
So I am getting closer to setting up my basement sump and fuge. I have a 75g used tank, I have the right size pump and I have my husband as a volunteer. But I am having a hard time with just what to add for my natural filtration. As I am not adding to the bioload -- only the water volume, I think going this way is very safe. I was thinking of doing both mud and dsb and having several sections in the fuge. Is this overkill? I was reading info on the guy in London David Saxby and he uses sugar sand and caluerpa sertularioides and gets the same impact as miracle mud with the critters it hosts. Then there is the concern of it going sexual??? Is that only if you do the 24/7 lighting? I am leaning towards doing this as the prospect of changing mud out every two years doesn't excite me. I could still do two sections and have one for the caulerpa and one for chaeto??? Both with dsb with the sugar sand? Any feedback?

here are some variables to consider:
don't give up your skimmer--ever ever--probably the best mechanical filtration to come along

flow rates----through the sump they should be between 5-10 times the total water column in gph and or match the skimmer rate
This is very important because if the water is not skimmed properly it is sent back to the tank and usually to the bottom areas of your tank(via the loc lines) It then has to rise through the layers of water colunm till it gets to the top again---while its doing that it is available for algae cyano etc

this is very flow rate in the tank comes in to play--most reefers state that it is desirable to have a flow rate between 20-40 times the total tank volume in gph. This done with a variety of korilias can address all areas of the tank so that debris ect can't settle enough is caught up in the water column where it is filtered out

If you have a 30 gal refug--it adds 30 gals to the whole water column, it adds more filtration and you can divert the flow from the main tank through it--slowing down the flowing at your skimmer.

If you have an established fuge and a skimmer that is all the mechanical filtration you need,
Live rock and the sand bed are all the biological filtration you need

Combine this with a phosban reactor running phosban and carbon and you are going to have an unbelievable clean, stable natural system

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11699278#post11699278 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
So I am getting closer to setting up my basement sump and fuge. I have a 75g used tank, I have the right size pump and I have my husband as a volunteer. But I am having a hard time with just what to add for my natural filtration. As I am not adding to the bioload -- only the water volume, I think going this way is very safe. I was thinking of doing both mud and dsb and having several sections in the fuge. Is this overkill? I was reading info on the guy in London David Saxby and he uses sugar sand and caluerpa sertularioides and gets the same impact as miracle mud with the critters it hosts. Then there is the concern of it going sexual??? Is that only if you do the 24/7 lighting? I am leaning towards doing this as the prospect of changing mud out every two years doesn't excite me. I could still do two sections and have one for the caulerpa and one for chaeto??? Both with dsb with the sugar sand? Any feedback?

here are some variables to consider:
don't give up your skimmer--ever ever--probably the best mechanical filtration to come along

flow rates----through the sump they should be between 5-10 times the total water column in gph and or match the skimmer rate
This is very important because if the water is not skimmed properly it is sent back to the tank and usually to the bottom areas of your tank(via the loc lines) It then has to rise through the layers of water colunm till it gets to the top again---while its doing that it is available for algae cyano etc

this is very flow rate in the tank comes in to play--most reefers state that it is desirable to have a flow rate between 20-40 times the total tank volume in gph. This done with a variety of korilias can address all areas of the tank so that debris ect can't settle enough is caught up in the water column where it is filtered out

If you have a 30 gal refug--it adds 30 gals to the whole water column, it adds more filtration and you can divert the flow from the main tank through it--slowing down the flowing at your skimmer.

If you have an established fuge and a skimmer that is all the mechanical filtration you need,
Live rock and the sand bed are all the biological filtration you need

Combine this with a phosban reactor running phosban and carbon and you are going to have an unbelievable clean, stable natural system

 

[Tswifty]

Great thread!

I'm setting up a 90g reef now, and will def be using this page when designing my filtration system.

As far as rubble goes, right now I have larger pieces and some rubble in my fuge. However, the flow rate through the fuge is greatly reduced via the ball valve.

I have also seen sumps with rubble stacked tight in an intake section. Would the rubble be more beneficial in an area with higher flow rate such as my middle section, or in the bottom of my intake section?

Here's the pic of my setup:

 

[Mental1]

Capn -- there are absolutely no plans to eliminate the existing skimmer. What I was thinking is that because I am not really going to add bioload in the form of additional fish or corals, that I would not need to add an additional skimmer.

The water going through the first sump -- what I call the skimmer sump will be fast. The second sump, what I am calling the fuge sump, will have a slower flow through it. The pump I have, and using the head loss calculator, I think it said I would have over 600 GPH which I have been told is too much for a 65 gallon tank. But just 20 times the display tank size would put it at 1300 GPH which is double what others have said is already too much for my tank. So I am a bit confused about what to do ... I have read as low as 10 and as high as 30 depending upon what you are keeping.

At any rate, I am still trying to decide on what to grow and how to grow it soooo I must keep exploring -- maybe I need to be chatting in the microalgae forum ...