Insane Reefer
New member
Same here Reefbound - I haven't had any problem with it yet...
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter Travis L. Stevens
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Reefbound1
New member
kool,thanks guys, thats good because I did about half the bag just in case this was going to be bad news...
Insane Reefer
New member
wow - half a bag. That should make a butt-load of rock...
How big of a tank?
How big of a tank?
Abalone joe
New member
Dito on the controlled testing of the rock boiling technique. It could end up a useful method.
I thought abought the RO wastewater too. I had all the same concerns. I wouldn't worry about nitrates; They take care of themselve thru time. Phosphate; Not sure, May be a lingering problem. I think any phosphates incorporated in the rock would be minimal and also likely to leach out slowly. Didn't I read somewhere that a carbonate substrate helps phosphates precipitate out of the water? A few years ago thet seemed to be discussed a lot (talking about sand beds). Later articles seemed to largely dismiss this worry. I can't say I remember clearly. Even if that's all true it doesn't mean the porous but solid nature of artificial rocks would react the same way. Condensed copper from the pipe might be something to worry about. Your houehold plumbing may be of pvc but what about the pipes entering the house. Carbon does absolutely nothing for copper. Then there's always contaminant X.
Does anyone sometimes think we stress and worry to much about contaminants? Copper is definately bad. Phosphates are a problem. They (phosphates) are reletively easy to remove unless from a chronic source. Silica's overblown- at least anything but silicate acid or whatever the correct name for it is. Iron has tured out to be used in mud for it's chemical binding abillity. this is in spite of it's nutrient value to plants and yes...algea.
Slightly off topic but everyone be encouraged to comment. And be specific.
I thought abought the RO wastewater too. I had all the same concerns. I wouldn't worry about nitrates; They take care of themselve thru time. Phosphate; Not sure, May be a lingering problem. I think any phosphates incorporated in the rock would be minimal and also likely to leach out slowly. Didn't I read somewhere that a carbonate substrate helps phosphates precipitate out of the water? A few years ago thet seemed to be discussed a lot (talking about sand beds). Later articles seemed to largely dismiss this worry. I can't say I remember clearly. Even if that's all true it doesn't mean the porous but solid nature of artificial rocks would react the same way. Condensed copper from the pipe might be something to worry about. Your houehold plumbing may be of pvc but what about the pipes entering the house. Carbon does absolutely nothing for copper. Then there's always contaminant X.
Does anyone sometimes think we stress and worry to much about contaminants? Copper is definately bad. Phosphates are a problem. They (phosphates) are reletively easy to remove unless from a chronic source. Silica's overblown- at least anything but silicate acid or whatever the correct name for it is. Iron has tured out to be used in mud for it's chemical binding abillity. this is in spite of it's nutrient value to plants and yes...algea.
Slightly off topic but everyone be encouraged to comment. And be specific.
Reefbound1
New member
Actually, it was about a 1/4 of the bag when i went back out to clean up and picked up that porland bag I was wrong because it was still very heavy... anyone need some cement and salt?
Its only a 75 gallon and I have about 106lbs of Fiji in there I want about 150 or so .My ultimate goal is to get rid of the hob filter.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Observations on Kure
Observations on Kure
I've made a few more batches of rock. All have been small batches, 1-3 rocks per. I've made a few observations on the process. IME
1) 24 hours rest time in casting mold is barely enough, 36 is better.
I have broken at least 1 in each batch when handeling @ 24 hrs.
(maybe I'm impatient...
)
2) Obviously, water changes are vital to the kuring process.
In addition to water changes, during the first 3-4 days of soak time, I see a need to vigorously rinse the rocks & kuring container. There is so much gunk that comes off the rocks in the first few days, that just draining and refilling seems to not get everything from the container. I've been removing rocks, setting on a pallet, hosing off one side, turn over and hose again. Same with container. (1 or 2X daily for first 3 days)
I have not tested for PH yet, but based on visual observations over a few batches, the soak, remove, rinse, refill, repeat seems to accelerate the looks of the kure. At about day 3 or 4 I see almost no rinseable debris/sediment/gunk but the first 1- 3 days produce plenty.
I'll try for some pics tonite, crazy work week, my boys have the boat hitched up, and we're going skiing.
If I don't post again, they succeeded in drowning me. :lol:
Observations on Kure
I've made a few more batches of rock. All have been small batches, 1-3 rocks per. I've made a few observations on the process. IME
1) 24 hours rest time in casting mold is barely enough, 36 is better.
I have broken at least 1 in each batch when handeling @ 24 hrs.
(maybe I'm impatient...
)2) Obviously, water changes are vital to the kuring process.
In addition to water changes, during the first 3-4 days of soak time, I see a need to vigorously rinse the rocks & kuring container. There is so much gunk that comes off the rocks in the first few days, that just draining and refilling seems to not get everything from the container. I've been removing rocks, setting on a pallet, hosing off one side, turn over and hose again. Same with container. (1 or 2X daily for first 3 days)
I have not tested for PH yet, but based on visual observations over a few batches, the soak, remove, rinse, refill, repeat seems to accelerate the looks of the kure. At about day 3 or 4 I see almost no rinseable debris/sediment/gunk but the first 1- 3 days produce plenty.
I'll try for some pics tonite, crazy work week, my boys have the boat hitched up, and we're going skiing.
If I don't post again, they succeeded in drowning me. :lol:
Insane Reefer
New member
Be a poor showing to kill dad on fathers day...
lol
Have fun!
lol
Have fun!
Abalone joe
New member
Rinsing the rocks two times a day is a waste of water and time. You wouldn't believe the suffering I've done rinsing rocks to get them to cure. Remember what I said about 8 months. No joke. Maybe with low ph cement and a less alkaline matrix it would have gone faster. BTW when I say 8 months, I was saying 8 mo until I gave up! After an additional 5 mo high and dry I put them in my friends creek. I'll pull them in another week or two totalling about 2&1/2 mo in the creek. Again, If there not done then, just shoot me.
I define cured as soaking a Quantity of rock in a reasonably small volume of fresh water. After 1 week if the pH hasn't risen beyond 8.4 there ready for stage two. Although I feel 8.2 or 8.3 would be better.
Stage two refers to a 1 week soak in salt water or a reasonable facsimile therof. This is due to many reputable reports stating that a subsequent soak in salt water caused a pH spike. If after 1 week in salt water the Ph is in the acceptable aquarium range- Disco. If not start aqain at stage 1.
Here are a few bits of info to glean from my travails.
A carbonate crust will form on top of the water for weeks and weeks.
If you add an air lift for circulation; the crust will not for but carbonates will still precipitate on the sides of the container. This doesn't help the chemistry in any appreciable way but you don't end up with carbonate crust breaking and snowing onto and into your rocks. Rinsing during your water change is made much easier.
Testing the pH at anything less than 6 weeks is pointless effort.
That's a best case- expect a much much longer wait.
Vinegar only serves to soften the rocks.
Find a way to soak your rocks in running water. A creek onr a toilet. Be careful of what type of flapper you have in the toilet tank. I wouldn't trust a lot of them from what I've seen. Also, what kind of water treatments have been used in the tank?
A pond would also be acceptable due to the very large volume of water.
I define cured as soaking a Quantity of rock in a reasonably small volume of fresh water. After 1 week if the pH hasn't risen beyond 8.4 there ready for stage two. Although I feel 8.2 or 8.3 would be better.
Stage two refers to a 1 week soak in salt water or a reasonable facsimile therof. This is due to many reputable reports stating that a subsequent soak in salt water caused a pH spike. If after 1 week in salt water the Ph is in the acceptable aquarium range- Disco. If not start aqain at stage 1.
Here are a few bits of info to glean from my travails.
A carbonate crust will form on top of the water for weeks and weeks.
If you add an air lift for circulation; the crust will not for but carbonates will still precipitate on the sides of the container. This doesn't help the chemistry in any appreciable way but you don't end up with carbonate crust breaking and snowing onto and into your rocks. Rinsing during your water change is made much easier.
Testing the pH at anything less than 6 weeks is pointless effort.
That's a best case- expect a much much longer wait.
Vinegar only serves to soften the rocks.
Find a way to soak your rocks in running water. A creek onr a toilet. Be careful of what type of flapper you have in the toilet tank. I wouldn't trust a lot of them from what I've seen. Also, what kind of water treatments have been used in the tank?
A pond would also be acceptable due to the very large volume of water.
Last edited:
davenelsen
New member
I just made my first batch of Rock Salt rock today. I am anxiously looking forward to setting them in my tank after the salt disolves.
thank you for experimenting and posting your results.
thank you for experimenting and posting your results.
Rhodophyta
New member
Interesting that the concrete "reef balls" used to construct artificial reefs or restore damaged natural reefs have an additive to buffer the pH at sea water's natural pH. I wonder what it is. It sounds a lot easier just to add a buffering agent that would allow the rock to be used much sooner.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
I'm back, my fathers day gift (new ski vest) wasn't lead lined. :lol:
Had a terrific Fathers day on the lake. I'm not as limber as I used to be, but I can still get out of the water.
Abalone Joe,
Curing in anything other than running water (creek, etc) is a waste of water, thats pretty much a given, and I accept that fact as "the cost of doing business" to make my own rocks.
I respect your opinion because of the amount of time that you've invested in the process, but I would disagree that rinsing 2X daily for a few days is a waste of time. In my limited experience, I see the rinsing for the first few days as beneficial as it removes a lot of stuff that would otherwise stay in/on the rocks.
All my rocks are headed to a creek this afternoon, but from my observations here in my own backyard, the rocks that were rinsed "LOOK" better (cleaner) that the ones that were not rinsed as often or as well.
I have no proof of the benefit, however I have to believe that gunk removal has to be beneficial.
It will be some time before I am far enough along to test PH, so my thoughts on the matter will remain just that, my thoughts.
This DIY rock thread is a joint learning experience, and we all have learned much from each others experiences along the way.
Thanks to everyone for their time & efforts to share thoughts, ideas, experiements, methods & results.
Bart
Had a terrific Fathers day on the lake. I'm not as limber as I used to be, but I can still get out of the water.
Abalone Joe,
Curing in anything other than running water (creek, etc) is a waste of water, thats pretty much a given, and I accept that fact as "the cost of doing business" to make my own rocks.
I respect your opinion because of the amount of time that you've invested in the process, but I would disagree that rinsing 2X daily for a few days is a waste of time. In my limited experience, I see the rinsing for the first few days as beneficial as it removes a lot of stuff that would otherwise stay in/on the rocks.
All my rocks are headed to a creek this afternoon, but from my observations here in my own backyard, the rocks that were rinsed "LOOK" better (cleaner) that the ones that were not rinsed as often or as well.
I have no proof of the benefit, however I have to believe that gunk removal has to be beneficial.
It will be some time before I am far enough along to test PH, so my thoughts on the matter will remain just that, my thoughts.
This DIY rock thread is a joint learning experience, and we all have learned much from each others experiences along the way.
Thanks to everyone for their time & efforts to share thoughts, ideas, experiements, methods & results.
Bart
James Yeung
New member
This is a great thread. So good, that I strated to brew my first batch myself. I bought two 20kgs of blue lable water softener salt from HD (says 99.8% pure salt on the bag) and 40kg of St. Marys (I think) portland cement, type 10.
So the problem, the salt comes in pretty large chunks can be as big as 1cm and as long as 3cm. I tried crushing it by hand with a piece of 2x4 but it's alot of work, especially doing a whole bag of this stuff. I stopped after crushing a few pounds and made a few rocks. So far so good but I think some of the crushed salt I used are still too big. I'm going to start the long curing process when I get home from work. Okay, I feel silly asking this but anyone found a better method to crush salt without too much effort? Arrgh!
TIA!
So the problem, the salt comes in pretty large chunks can be as big as 1cm and as long as 3cm. I tried crushing it by hand with a piece of 2x4 but it's alot of work, especially doing a whole bag of this stuff. I stopped after crushing a few pounds and made a few rocks. So far so good but I think some of the crushed salt I used are still too big. I'm going to start the long curing process when I get home from work. Okay, I feel silly asking this but anyone found a better method to crush salt without too much effort? Arrgh!
TIA!
Travis L. Stevens
New member
I wouldn't crush the salt at all. As you add water to the cement mixture, all the salt will melt slightly making them a little smaller. No worries.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
All the rocks (so far) L to R in order of completion
Closer view of batch 1 not very porous or creative
Batch 2, better looking, but still not very porous
Batch 3, Porosity is what I want, water flows thru all the rocks, texture is much better (IMO) Foreground rocks were rinsed as I described a few posts back, background rocks were soaked & water changed, W/out the strong rinse. I see a difference and that is what I wrote about
First of batch 4 to come out of salt mold. I have a few more to unmold. Everything but the newest is off to the creek this afternoon, I'll plan to see them in a month or so, to check them.
Closer view of batch 1 not very porous or creative
Batch 2, better looking, but still not very porous
Batch 3, Porosity is what I want, water flows thru all the rocks, texture is much better (IMO) Foreground rocks were rinsed as I described a few posts back, background rocks were soaked & water changed, W/out the strong rinse. I see a difference and that is what I wrote about
First of batch 4 to come out of salt mold. I have a few more to unmold. Everything but the newest is off to the creek this afternoon, I'll plan to see them in a month or so, to check them.
James Yeung
New member
Travis: The rock salts I have are huge! Some are as large as standard peanuts (with the shell). Looks like I bought the wrong stuff... I guess they'll make okay road salt when winter comes along.
BigSkyBart: Looks great! What kind brand of rock salt did you use? I think I need a bag of those. They're the size I want.
BigSkyBart: Looks great! What kind brand of rock salt did you use? I think I need a bag of those. They're the size I want.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
James: I guess I confused Centimeter with Millimeter. Sorry
Ya, that is rather large. You did make sure to get Crystalline and not Pellatized right? Are you 100% sure that it is Sodium Chloride and not Potassium Chloride?BSB: I agree, it does look great. What ratio did you end up using? I wonder if a final high pressure power wash would yield the same result as the occassional low pressure wash.
James Yeung
New member
Travis: Yes, they are the crystalline type as stated on the bag. It also claims to contain 99.8% dehyrdated salt. I forgot the brand and that's all I can tell you now since I'm at work. It's white in colour, unlike other rock salt I've seen here. At $3.99CDN per 20kg, it's a bargain, but I'm close to calling it road salt use when winter comes. I actually mixed a batch without crushing it and realized it's way too large so I started to crush the mixture with the blunt end of a 2x4. 
Too much effort.
Too much effort.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
James,
Brand of salt is: Diamond Crystal Solar Salt, Extra Coarse Crystals
Quick shot of the blue bag
a fairly representive sample of salt crystal sizes,
I've seen maybe a dozen pieces up to peanut size, but mostly as pictured.
Salt was purchased at a local farm & ranch supply, not sure if HD carries it.
Travis,
Ratio is 3:1 Salt:cement (by volume not weight) I'm using a 16 oz red plastic cup to measure
I'm not sure how about a final high pressure wash compares with what I'm doing. I THINK that it helps to remove the gunk early & often, but who really knows?
Brand of salt is: Diamond Crystal Solar Salt, Extra Coarse Crystals
Quick shot of the blue bag
a fairly representive sample of salt crystal sizes,
I've seen maybe a dozen pieces up to peanut size, but mostly as pictured.
Salt was purchased at a local farm & ranch supply, not sure if HD carries it.
Travis,
Ratio is 3:1 Salt:cement (by volume not weight) I'm using a 16 oz red plastic cup to measure
I'm not sure how about a final high pressure wash compares with what I'm doing. I THINK that it helps to remove the gunk early & often, but who really knows?
Reefbound1
New member
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