The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter Travis L. Stevens
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Insane Reefer
New member
Is that concrete? Those look like huge pebbles...
Yes that is concrete from a washout of a concrete truck. I just picked them up just to show a friend and decided to post them, all those weigh about 9 lbs and has a 8.4 pH after 1 hr of soak time.
I can get all that I want and can remove the aggrograte before it sets up, thats 3000 PSI concrete. I had a big verbage post to go along with it but removed it for the time being.
But as for as huge rocks those are pretty small, I zoomed in alot to so the porous of the pieces overall.
I can get all that I want and can remove the aggrograte before it sets up, thats 3000 PSI concrete. I had a big verbage post to go along with it but removed it for the time being.
But as for as huge rocks those are pretty small, I zoomed in alot to so the porous of the pieces overall.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
I made my 2nd batch yesterday, I just took them out of the rocksalt mold, I like version 2 much better, I changed the salt cement ratio. I gave a quick hose rinse and set them in water to start soaking.
Pictures and description tomorow
Stumpydru, will the washout pieces have enough porosity to be effective as live rock when it's seeded?
I'm asking, not assuming.
I have access to all of that I want also.
Thanks!
Pictures and description tomorow
Stumpydru, will the washout pieces have enough porosity to be effective as live rock when it's seeded?
I'm asking, not assuming.
I have access to all of that I want also.
Thanks!
Insane Reefer
New member
Will those provide any sort of benifit to an aquarium, other than as decoration?
It should be porous enough, I can look for some other sample tomorrow. I took a few and broke them into pieces and you could see the the inside.
Some of my samples was taken with a 2 # sledge hammer hehe (shows the strength of them, those are the smaller pieces with more pebbles in them, they came from a concrete storm inlet).
Granted those were laying around for a day and up to serveral months, but if you can get the fresh stuff you can remove small pieces. Remeber this was just pictures thinking outside of the box since I didn't want to take the guys portland cement hehe which they would have given me with no problems (already mixed up too, they was grouting the inlets).
Being a field inspector for new utilities (aka subdivisons and stuff) I come across all of kinda of stuff that could help explain stuff for ya'll. Ya'll are close on some of the theories here but still way off in some areas when it comes to cement/concrete.
Here's a few tips:
1) Use hot water > 100 degrees, so it will flash set the cement (you gotta be quick when working with it)
2) Entrain Air into the mix, means add air to it, so using something that can make air bubbles like an airrator just dont add too much air becuase trapped air pockets can cause it to be beouant, as seen in this thread
3) If strength is what you want then add sand to the portland cement so the cement can have something to bond too.
4) Salt/Sugar can cause a chemical reaction that can cause your piece to become brittle by never setting up properly (powdery results) as seen in this thread.
Items 1 to 3 is basically how concrete is made (minus the aggrograte). Concrete gets it strength from the bonding of cement to snad particles and to aggrograte. Rebar can be added to get structural strength by adding additional surface area for bonding. The main thing to remember is too much water in the mix is a bad thing, you need to maintain the proper cement to water ratio.
So with some of this info ya'll can try different design mixtures in your quests.
Some of my samples was taken with a 2 # sledge hammer hehe (shows the strength of them, those are the smaller pieces with more pebbles in them, they came from a concrete storm inlet).
Granted those were laying around for a day and up to serveral months, but if you can get the fresh stuff you can remove small pieces. Remeber this was just pictures thinking outside of the box since I didn't want to take the guys portland cement hehe which they would have given me with no problems (already mixed up too, they was grouting the inlets).
Being a field inspector for new utilities (aka subdivisons and stuff) I come across all of kinda of stuff that could help explain stuff for ya'll. Ya'll are close on some of the theories here but still way off in some areas when it comes to cement/concrete.
Here's a few tips:
1) Use hot water > 100 degrees, so it will flash set the cement (you gotta be quick when working with it)
2) Entrain Air into the mix, means add air to it, so using something that can make air bubbles like an airrator just dont add too much air becuase trapped air pockets can cause it to be beouant, as seen in this thread
3) If strength is what you want then add sand to the portland cement so the cement can have something to bond too.
4) Salt/Sugar can cause a chemical reaction that can cause your piece to become brittle by never setting up properly (powdery results) as seen in this thread.
Items 1 to 3 is basically how concrete is made (minus the aggrograte). Concrete gets it strength from the bonding of cement to snad particles and to aggrograte. Rebar can be added to get structural strength by adding additional surface area for bonding. The main thing to remember is too much water in the mix is a bad thing, you need to maintain the proper cement to water ratio.
So with some of this info ya'll can try different design mixtures in your quests.
IR, I think they would react the exact same way as any DIY being made here.
The only difference is those examples have bank sand, aggrogate (rocks) and entrained air in them. They should be porous enough as seen in a few of the pictures. I will get some tomorrow and break them in half to show the inside of them. The rocks with more pebbles in them are not the best pieces to use but more for seeing what they would look like. If they dont work as a LR they definately could be used as a tool to make textures in a DIY piece.
Think outside the box when doing your DIY piece. Anything and everything can be used as tools just like the salt was used as a tool. This thread was started on how to DIY for the cheapest method, so free is always good hehe.
If you really want to go cheap use a combination of sand salt and portland cement. Meaning use the sand in a box to create your design and then put a thin layer of salt in the mold and then place the cement in there. This way your 40 # bag of salt goes alot further and you can resuse the sand over and over (just to remember to soak the sand so it doesnt try to absorb the water out of the cement (Thats how we pour concrete roads on my beach project which is nothing but beach sand). To reduce overall weight you can hollow out the center of your cement once in the mold (which also creates tunnels, ledges and open areas).
The only difference is those examples have bank sand, aggrogate (rocks) and entrained air in them. They should be porous enough as seen in a few of the pictures. I will get some tomorrow and break them in half to show the inside of them. The rocks with more pebbles in them are not the best pieces to use but more for seeing what they would look like. If they dont work as a LR they definately could be used as a tool to make textures in a DIY piece.
Think outside the box when doing your DIY piece. Anything and everything can be used as tools just like the salt was used as a tool. This thread was started on how to DIY for the cheapest method, so free is always good hehe.
If you really want to go cheap use a combination of sand salt and portland cement. Meaning use the sand in a box to create your design and then put a thin layer of salt in the mold and then place the cement in there. This way your 40 # bag of salt goes alot further and you can resuse the sand over and over (just to remember to soak the sand so it doesnt try to absorb the water out of the cement (Thats how we pour concrete roads on my beach project which is nothing but beach sand). To reduce overall weight you can hollow out the center of your cement once in the mold (which also creates tunnels, ledges and open areas).
Mr.Nudibranch
New member
looks great
Rhodophyta
New member
Mix a little diatomaceous earth in with the color(s) of two phase epoxy you like, then dab it on with a small brush. The more DE. the more it can resemble some kind of sponge growth. It gives you something nice to see while you wait for encrusting calcareous.
Rhodophyta
New member
Well, I was curing some Aragocrete outside and a bunch of oak leaves and birch leaves fell into the vat. I thought cool, since they are slightly acidic to neutralize the alkalinity and free compared to vinegar. It colored the 'crete a nice irregular brown tone, randomly coloring parts of the rock and leaving others gray-white. It has been in a tank for about a year now and still has the pigmentation.
Savatage, the curing of the concrete starts right away, using hot water will cause a flash set of the cement and will start the curing process that much faster. You could add additives to speed up or slow down the curing process but remember curing can take 100+ years in some cases (like the Hoover Dam, it still has not fully cured).
When mixing cement with water it will start the chemical reactions within the cement, this process will generate heat and if your ratio isn't correct you can cause cracks in the cement, if you add too little of water then there will be raw cement that will never setup. Normal concrete will setup in a few hours and can support a 250 lbs person with no issues and a truck in 24 hrs (of course I yell at my contractors when i see that hehe, cause they are suppose to wait 7 days). In 3 days concrete (if done right) will have a flexrual rate of 450 lbs PSI and in 7 days will have a 2000 PSI crush rate and at 28 days over 3000 PSI crush rate. This is data that engineers use to make roads and buildings with and can be adjusted to make different results. when we do roads that have to allow a 18 wheeler on it within 24 hrs we do a high-early mix, which means we add 2 extra sacks of portland cement to the mix. This is a little technical info on concrete, rember we are not trying to make concrete but more like a grout, now there are different types of portland cement (Type I/II, N, etc).
Has anyone tried to use a Type N (masonary grout) which could be porous enough for a DIY rock. as far as strength there really isnt alot of weight on a square inch of rock, meaning if you had a 24" tall tank and you put a square tube (1"x1"x24") and weighed that water you would have the overall maximum weight of water a piece would have in a sqaure inch column. Remember that any water under the rock would be acting as a structual support for the rock. Now with a light weight DIY roack you should be able to reduce the rock weight by using techniques explained in these forums.
BTW, I'm not a concrete expert, I just deal with it alot hehe.
You can get concrete Dye into the mix to add color into the finished product. We add red to concrete when we are at a water plant and we put concrete over buried electrical lines to warn the person who is digging. The issue is red comes out as pink, so remember the color you see may not be the results you get. As far as tank safe I wouldn't know but would assume everything could be made tank safe in the long run (ie ship wrecks eventually has life on them). Since this is a passion/obbsession for most of ya'll remember to take your time and dont rush a process, I would have a trash tank that could be used as a testing tank if you really want to experiment.
I use a pH Testr 2 w/ATC to test the pH of my water and on the rocks I put into tap water yesterday I have a 9.1 pH aftr a 24 hour soak, Im going to leave them in with the same water to see what the max pH is before I change the water out (since Im not in a rush for anything). I think I have hit the max pH already. The test was washout a trach can (never used) and washed off the rocks with a water hose and then put the rocks in and added water to about 8" above the rocks. I did'nt cover them and they sit out in the open so anything could drop in there (Im not really concerned about that right now). The water is as clear as when I put it in via the garden hose which was approx 8.4 pH to start with.
I may try creating a waterfall system to cretae a constant flow process. That would be like soaking them in a running stream. I might put some in the ocean and test some there as well. The only issue peeps keep saying is polluants, but remember all this stuffs lives in the ocean which has some pollants in the water.
Take what you want from the post and be creative with it and hopefully I may have answered a few questions and/or produced a few more questions. I'm trying not to hijack the thread so if we need a new thread get one started and we can go from there.
So to recap, curing is taking place as soon as you mix the cement (chemical reaction) and will setup in a fairly short time (being able to work with it) and the time of leaching out the lime to lower the pH will depend on the overall surface area that is exposed to water (it may take years to totally leach it out but can be tank safe sooner). You can speed up the curing of the outside of the rock by using hot water (> 100 degree). You can air cure cement if you want or you can submerge it in water once it has started to turn light gray which means it is setting up, thats how they use to cure roads in the old days).
Goodluck on your trails and keep the data follow to others, your mistakes can help others in not making them in the future. Also document exact mix designs so you can post your results on what worked and what didnt work. since that is the common goal of all of this besides the flooding the LFS market with DIY rocks hehe.
When mixing cement with water it will start the chemical reactions within the cement, this process will generate heat and if your ratio isn't correct you can cause cracks in the cement, if you add too little of water then there will be raw cement that will never setup. Normal concrete will setup in a few hours and can support a 250 lbs person with no issues and a truck in 24 hrs (of course I yell at my contractors when i see that hehe, cause they are suppose to wait 7 days). In 3 days concrete (if done right) will have a flexrual rate of 450 lbs PSI and in 7 days will have a 2000 PSI crush rate and at 28 days over 3000 PSI crush rate. This is data that engineers use to make roads and buildings with and can be adjusted to make different results. when we do roads that have to allow a 18 wheeler on it within 24 hrs we do a high-early mix, which means we add 2 extra sacks of portland cement to the mix. This is a little technical info on concrete, rember we are not trying to make concrete but more like a grout, now there are different types of portland cement (Type I/II, N, etc).
Has anyone tried to use a Type N (masonary grout) which could be porous enough for a DIY rock. as far as strength there really isnt alot of weight on a square inch of rock, meaning if you had a 24" tall tank and you put a square tube (1"x1"x24") and weighed that water you would have the overall maximum weight of water a piece would have in a sqaure inch column. Remember that any water under the rock would be acting as a structual support for the rock. Now with a light weight DIY roack you should be able to reduce the rock weight by using techniques explained in these forums.
BTW, I'm not a concrete expert, I just deal with it alot hehe.
You can get concrete Dye into the mix to add color into the finished product. We add red to concrete when we are at a water plant and we put concrete over buried electrical lines to warn the person who is digging. The issue is red comes out as pink, so remember the color you see may not be the results you get. As far as tank safe I wouldn't know but would assume everything could be made tank safe in the long run (ie ship wrecks eventually has life on them). Since this is a passion/obbsession for most of ya'll remember to take your time and dont rush a process, I would have a trash tank that could be used as a testing tank if you really want to experiment.
I use a pH Testr 2 w/ATC to test the pH of my water and on the rocks I put into tap water yesterday I have a 9.1 pH aftr a 24 hour soak, Im going to leave them in with the same water to see what the max pH is before I change the water out (since Im not in a rush for anything). I think I have hit the max pH already. The test was washout a trach can (never used) and washed off the rocks with a water hose and then put the rocks in and added water to about 8" above the rocks. I did'nt cover them and they sit out in the open so anything could drop in there (Im not really concerned about that right now). The water is as clear as when I put it in via the garden hose which was approx 8.4 pH to start with.
I may try creating a waterfall system to cretae a constant flow process. That would be like soaking them in a running stream. I might put some in the ocean and test some there as well. The only issue peeps keep saying is polluants, but remember all this stuffs lives in the ocean which has some pollants in the water.
Take what you want from the post and be creative with it and hopefully I may have answered a few questions and/or produced a few more questions. I'm trying not to hijack the thread so if we need a new thread get one started and we can go from there.
So to recap, curing is taking place as soon as you mix the cement (chemical reaction) and will setup in a fairly short time (being able to work with it) and the time of leaching out the lime to lower the pH will depend on the overall surface area that is exposed to water (it may take years to totally leach it out but can be tank safe sooner). You can speed up the curing of the outside of the rock by using hot water (> 100 degree). You can air cure cement if you want or you can submerge it in water once it has started to turn light gray which means it is setting up, thats how they use to cure roads in the old days).
Goodluck on your trails and keep the data follow to others, your mistakes can help others in not making them in the future. Also document exact mix designs so you can post your results on what worked and what didnt work. since that is the common goal of all of this besides the flooding the LFS market with DIY rocks hehe.
Here is thinking outside the box. Google is always your friend and with a little of research you can see how the cement industry has progressed.
Fly Ash we use fly ash as a binding agent when we have a silty sand conditions for subgrades for roads. I personally never had a project with Fly Ash in the concrete but I know peeps who have and it's what the artical says. This should spark so new thought processes for ya'll hehe.
I'm trying tio look for a design mix for cinder block since it it very light weight and strong with a porous structure. I would like to see ya'll do some research and post what you find so others can say "Dang I didn't think of that but cool idea" (kinda what this thread is all about cause someone tried salt and noodles and said hey folks check this out)
Here is anothe lite reading for you: Porous Concrete
Fly Ash we use fly ash as a binding agent when we have a silty sand conditions for subgrades for roads. I personally never had a project with Fly Ash in the concrete but I know peeps who have and it's what the artical says. This should spark so new thought processes for ya'll hehe.
I'm trying tio look for a design mix for cinder block since it it very light weight and strong with a porous structure. I would like to see ya'll do some research and post what you find so others can say "Dang I didn't think of that but cool idea" (kinda what this thread is all about cause someone tried salt and noodles and said hey folks check this out)
Here is anothe lite reading for you: Porous Concrete
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Concrete Recipes this has good info, basically what I was saying.
Insane Reefer
New member
Almost any cement can be used - I would avoid one's with "fibers" in them, or one's for specialty applications and stick to the basic type 1,2,3.
Do keep in mind that white type 1 seems to be like swimming pool cement, and I doubt has any benefit to be gained from it - looks pretty though...
Do keep in mind that white type 1 seems to be like swimming pool cement, and I doubt has any benefit to be gained from it - looks pretty though...
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