The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7539083#post7539083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hypsoblennius
By the way, nice panels IR!

... My plan will be to build two large corner pieces, wide at the base and sloping upward... [/B]

Thanks
I discovered that panels should be no less than 2" thick, which also seems to be the case with anything sculpted in the salt mix and meant to take weight (shelves, arches, etc)

After I posted, I wondered whether the "slope" might be more what you were describing.
Locking pieces can be a mighty pain. You have to match the pieces almost exactly or no fit.

You might have more fun and better luck moulding by hand in a large box. The box should come pretty close to your tanks footprint and height.
Lay your horizontal foot first (unless you want a table with legs - then do the legs first), add a layer of mould material and start working your slope, and adding shelves as you proceed and adding more mould material as you work your way up the box. To help with weight, use pieces to cardboard to section the box into pieces...

Pre-formed plug holes are a great idea - and you could plug them with deco-rock plugs until you have corals to place...

What are the standard sized for frags and plugs?

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7538874#post7538874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Savatage
... auto topoff selinoid...

...Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does kind of make scense.

Makes great sense for loosing the pH, but since few of us get water for free, it would be like 4 weeks (maybe more) of a water leak on your water bill. Not to mention that the chemical processes in the cement are still going strong and those have to slow dramatically before you notice a drop in pH, even with constant water change.

I was wondering if a product made for lowering pH, used as a soak/bath for a few days might not speed the process. I'd wait a few weeks to use it, so the cement has a good amount of time to harden - but haven't had any feedback on it or been able to find anything online about anyone trying this...

 

[scrager]

if you are goign to mold with play dough, why not mold with sand? sand doesn't rot, it washes out easier (might have to wash out manually with hose or powerhead) and if it doesn't come out it doesn't harm your tank in any way.

as for auto top off to tub. just as only fresh water evaporates in a salt tank and you replace water, not salt. so will only water evaporate and the ions that cause the PH will remain. you will be topping off but not curing. frequent water changes are the way to cure high ph concrete until it is at a safe level for your tank.

 

[ghever]

just took a stab at my first DIY rocks.. I think some of the first molds I tried might have had not enough cement, we will see... I have some interesting stuff I made...will take pics and share when they are ready.

G

 

[Savatage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7539721#post7539721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
Makes great sense for loosing the pH, but since few of us get water for free, it would be like 4 weeks (maybe more) of a water leak on your water bill. Not to mention that the chemical processes in the cement are still going strong and those have to slow dramatically before you notice a drop in pH, even with constant water change.

I was wondering if a product made for lowering pH, used as a soak/bath for a few days might not speed the process. I'd wait a few weeks to use it, so the cement has a good amount of time to harden - but haven't had any feedback on it or been able to find anything online about anyone trying this...

Water is cheap.....and if you use a 30 gallons soak tank and dump it to change out the water every day, you are using more water. The idea I was mentioning was to set it up the same way an auto-topoff for a sump works, except for istead of turning on a pump with a float......you would have a selinoid that actually opens to allow water from your hose to come out. It does the water change for you as the water evaporates.

Or there is another idea........connect the selinoid or an electric gate valve to a times and have it turn on once a day for 5 minutes and it will do the change for you. I have already set up the system outside my home, so that when I try these new ideas for rocks, I don't have to do anything.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7540641#post7540641 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scrager
if you are goign to mold with play dough, why not mold with sand? sand doesn't rot, it washes out easier (might have to wash out manually with hose or powerhead) and if it doesn't come out it doesn't harm your tank in any way.

as for auto top off to tub. just as only fresh water evaporates in a salt tank and you replace water, not salt. so will only water evaporate and the ions that cause the PH will remain. you will be topping off but not curing. frequent water changes are the way to cure high ph concrete until it is at a safe level for your tank.

I think the sand mold method is what everyone knew because it was one of the first methods used with aragocrete, and tried here to find alternatives to. If you object to a layer of sand sticking to your rocks, you can add molasses or Karo and ground up dry oatmeal or potato flakes to the sand. Not only does the resulting mixture fall off the rocks after curing, but if you press real rocks into it and gently sprinkle your concrete into it, you can faithfully reproduce shapes and textures, once you get some practice at it.

I have not tried it, opting for a large tub to cure and leach my aragocrete, but the funniest and simplest method I've heard is to put a few rocks into the toilet tank. Instead of using water to leach out alkalinity, you are actually saving a little water on each flush by the volume of the rocks displacing a little water in the toilet tank. And it is already set up and ready to use. You don't have to buy a tub or run a garden hose.

 

[Savatage]

Another comment about something else. Earlier in this thread someone said something about curing the rock in the river or lake just as long as there were no polution problems with the water.

Here are a couple things to consider......

1.) All water has algae growth in it.........meaning Nitrates. These Nitrates will soak into the rock and you just might have problems. I wouldn't saok my rocks in no river or lake.

2.) How many lakes and rivers in this world have traces of Mercury in them. I think they all do......I wouldn't want to be transporting Mercury to my reef.

3.) All animals, including dogs, cows, horses, etc., crap and pee in lakes and rivers. Think about this one....if horse manure has so much acid in it that it can eat away and kill a human in hours, what kind of effect do you think these small traces in the rivers will do to your rock, or moreso, how do you think your reef will react when it leaches from your rock to your SUPER SMALL Ocean that sits in your home??????

I am not trying to be rude or anything, but I am trying to strongly stress a concerning point to be aware of. Honestly, I wouldn't want to take the chance of puting my rocks in no river. If the States provided MSDS sheets for our rivers, then I would. LOL.

 

[kasper4lyf]

ok here we go,
after reading all these awesome ideas and seeing all those, well Awesome results I have decided to try and make my own. I have a Used (close friend had to go bigger)120 AGA that I just started up a month ago with the sand that was already in it and about 20 pounds of live rock. I also added about 50 pounds of reef bones and dead rock that were the remanence of my 54g Corner I lost last year due to a hurricane. Suffice to say there is a whole lot of room left in the tank so I hope to fill it with, shall we dare call it "Auquacultered" rock.(hehe) I will try and add some pics soon. First batch is drying now.

 

[rgj01]

If horse manure has so much acid in it that it can eat away and kill a human in hours,

Just out of curiosity, do you have a reference for this at all? I was wondering how it would work. Would the person have to be burried in it, or eat it? (YECH!).

Or is it just from too much handling, like getting a bunch on your hands and arms whilst moving it or something?

(Or was it a joke that has gone completely over my head )

 

[kasper4lyf]

here is my first attempt to post pics so please bare with me here. These should be the rocks drying out. Day 1...

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7541179#post7541179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rgj01
Just out of curiosity, do you have a reference for this at all? I was wondering how it would work. Would the person have to be burried in it, or eat it? (YECH!).

Or is it just from too much handling, like getting a bunch on your hands and arms whilst moving it or something?

(Or was it a joke that has gone completely over my head )

Your head and mine both - I have horses (see gallery for one), and can truthfully say that I have had HS on me and never even noticed a slight burn from it. I wouldn't recommend rolling in the poop if you value your social life, but eat a human body in hours? In all my years around horses and horse folk, I have never heard such a thing...
Maybe someone can send this one to "Myth Busters", lol...

 

[scrager]

i'm going to repeat this because i don't think the people that had this idea saw it or thought about it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7540641#post7540641 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scrager
as for auto top off to tub. just as only fresh water evaporates in a salt tank and you replace water, not salt. so will only water evaporate and the ions that cause the PH will remain. you will be topping off but not curing. frequent water changes are the way to cure high ph concrete until it is at a safe level for your tank.

the curing of concrete is having part of the concrete disolve. the dissolution of that substance (i believe it is the lime) is what drives the ph up. when the water evaporates, the substance stays. only so much can leech into the water before the water is saturated. once the water is saturated, no more of the concrete disolves. once you move it to a new fresh batch of water (or your tank) it will continue disolving and raising ph. topping off for evaporation will not help you in curing your rocks. you must change out the saturated water.

 

[ReeferMac]

Well, thanks. Now I can officially remove my subscription to this thread, as it's proved absolutely worthless for the past 10 pages.
How did this thread turn from Arragocrete to horse ****?

- Mac

 

[captbunzo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7542288#post7542288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scrager
i'm going to repeat this because i don't think the people that had this idea saw it or thought about it.

the curing of concrete is having part of the concrete disolve. the dissolution of that substance (i believe it is the lime) is what drives the ph up. when the water evaporates, the substance stays. only so much can leech into the water before the water is saturated. once the water is saturated, no more of the concrete disolves. once you move it to a new fresh batch of water (or your tank) it will continue disolving and raising ph. topping off for evaporation will not help you in curing your rocks. you must change out the saturated water.

Perhaps it was ignored as you didn't read back properly. We are NOT talking about auto-topoff systems. We are talking about auto-water change systems.

 

[scrager]

I am refering to this post from the previous page. one of the posts on this page also mentions top off from evaporation.

i agree that an auto shut off after dumping the bucket will work, but that's not what some of the people on here are talking about. I'm trying to save them some time when they let their auto top off sit for 4 weeks and then change the water but the PH is still high.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7538874#post7538874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Savatage
Just an idea here, but has anyone ever tried to use a 10 or 20 gal tank with a heater set at it's highest, and auto topoff selinoid.

Idea is this...... Cement cures better with heat. The higher the heat the higher the evaporation rate. The top off water will help keep the water fresh at all times (in a mannor of speaking). When water evaporates, the ph also goes with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it does kind of make scense.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7543742#post7543742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReeferMac
Well, thanks. Now I can officially remove my subscription to this thread, as it's proved absolutely worthless for the past 10 pages.
- Mac

Bye-Bye!

 

[Insane Reefer]

Yeah, I think the confusion comes when using the term "auto top-off" - this sounds like refilling from evaporation, which WILL NOT WORK, PERIOD.

Now, a "Flush" system would work wonders - don't know if it can be setup to auto flush and refill, but THIS would work.

No matter how you break it down, You must CHANGE the water frequently to reduce pH, not just replace the water that evaporates...

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I'm sure this can all be set up extremely easy just by buying a toilet kit from a hardware store. Drill a hole in the bottom of the tub where the rubber stopper pops into place as it drains.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7546954#post7546954 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
I'm sure this can all be set up extremely easy just by buying a toilet kit from a hardware store. Drill a hole in the bottom of the tub where the rubber stopper pops into place as it drains.

Exactly what I was thinking Travis - but with a toilet flush assembly, do you think tub height will be a factor? I have a kiddy pool I'm doing some kuring in, and something like this would be a god-send...

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Why would tub weight be a factor? All it is is a float valve with a cord attached to the drain stopper