The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Tahlequah]

What you are going to get is a non water soluable salt precipitate. By removing the free hydrogen ions in water through the salt precipitate you allow more hydrogen to leak out of the rock. I think as long as you wash your rock after the bath you should be ok.

I need to find my environmental chemistry book to double check but i am pretty sure the acid, as long as it isnt at a concentration to disolve the rock, would be ok to keep the hydrogen ions in check and allow a constant precipitation instead of having to keep changing the water.

dont quote me on it yet as i will have to get off of work to check with my chem book.

 

[Insane Reefer]

This has been discussed off and on in the past - and for non-baked rock, it may be really helpful. Using the acid to try to increase the amount of "crud" it can hold (and so fewer water changes), instead of trying to quickly kure the green rock with acid makes a lot more sense. What you are talking about probably won't help kure times, but will be more cost efficient in time and money (water).

 

[Insane Reefer]

Yin, I second Travis' question about what the acid might do within the rock. Research shows that some acids can create sulfuric acid gas within the cement - this would be a bad thing.

That is one of the sad things about our hobby. Research on marine organisms and their environments is almost exclusively done for the wide ocean - not our little boxes of ocean. There just isn't very much funding for research on marine aquariums, and so very little is done. Your spa chemical may very well be safe, and sounds like it probably is for its intended use - but without testing, with the proper equipment and facilities, it is a gamble; are you willing to take that gamble? Most of us are not, and so we tend to stick in the footsteps of others - were they have walked, we may walk - so to speak.

That was one reason I stuck on this thread. Travis "knew" that salt didn't work in rocks - he had read it over and over in other peoples posts, and it didn't work for them. But instead of hanging his head and giving up, he thought about it and experimented and discovered that salt can be used - you just have to know what kind of salt to use.
I myself have said that acid baths don't work, or at least not like we would like them to (shorten the kure considerably), but have discovered a use for acid that is working, in this particular application.

Basically what I'm trying to say is don't stop trying. Just because something fails in one use doesn't mean it will always fail in all uses. Sometimes it just takes a different angle...

 

[Yinepu]

well.. like i said.. i'm not into chemistry.. so i have no clue what it may or may not do in the rock, to the rock or whatever... it was just a thought, so i mentioned it to see if anyone had any ideas about it... lol.. it may give someone ideas to play around with it to see what it will do!

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956293#post9956293 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Yinepu
well.. like i said.. i'm not into chemistry.. so i have no clue what it may or may not do in the rock, to the rock or whatever... it was just a thought, so i mentioned it to see if anyone had any ideas about it... lol.. it may give someone ideas to play around with it to see what it will do!

Not into chemistry? Don't worry. A lot of research has been done on how concrete hardens, ages, and its strength and chemical properties. It would take an off the wall idea to come up with something that would be new chemical knowledge about concrete. History says the ancient Romans made blood sacrifices to insure that their concrete hardened properly so some off the wall ideas have come and gone already. The chemistry came long after the methods and ingredients were created by trial and error.

 

[Rustylugnuts]

All this talk of baking makes me wish i had a solar oven for the batch in the tub right now! couple days to a week @ temps of 220-360 with no increase in the lectric bill might be handy

 

[Insane Reefer]

And the cool thing is that even cement scientists will readily admit that they have only scratched the surface of cement chemistry - there is so much they just don't understand - cement is a fascinating substance.

Rusty, a solar kiln might work if you could get the temps up to 400°F+, and "days" is really unnecessary - granted there is room for experimentation, but as I said before, I think the industry probably has figured out the best ratio of time&heat to get the most hydration for their dollar.

Anyway, Test Batches 1,2 &3 have been baked - I started them at 9pm and had the stove kick off at 2pm, but because I wanted a couple of hours of sleep, they sat in the stove cooling for 4 hours - two more than I wanted them to. They were a bit cooler this time as a result, so we will see if that affects anything. I made these as thick, heavy pieces - the sort that a noob might make for a first go at making rock. These are unlike what I normally make, but I wanted to see if this process works even on really thick dense pieces were no care was taken to make it really porous, beyond the addition of salt. I also baked them an hour longer because of the thickness.
I just got done plunging the rocks in the super hot water, and now they are releasing in my utility sink. Tomorrow I will cut a piece open to see if the salt is gone, and if it is, will proceed to acid kure it.

Wish me luck

 

[reefrubble]

DIY

DIY

I would like my DIY Live Rock to look like this . Give me a clue ,how to do it like this .

 

[Insane Reefer]

Wow, nice piece
I think Speckled Trout would be the one to ask, or Rhody - Trout posted pics of pieces he made for a friend that were all branchy, and Rhody seems to know how to cast from things he has said.
But you can tell this was made from several pieces - a collage if you like. It has real pieces of coral rubble, and the shelves are pretty obviously pre-cast as well. If I had to make a go at this, I'd cast the base, branches and shelves and once they were dry enough to work with, use fresh cement to adhere the whole and add details. Making a sketch of what you'd like will help you visualize the steps you will need to take.
HTH

 

[Insane Reefer]

Ok - pictures of the rock in the release bath. The rock will be 48 hours old in less than half and hour. It has been in the release bath for 6 hours.

The rocks in the water - can you tell the grey rocks from the white ones? This is just 6 hours - ever seen anything like this?

A bit closer. Sorry about the fuzziness - that is how cloudy the water is...

Drained for first refill and you can see the white verses the grey now, lol.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

What are you Kuring in?

 

[Insane Reefer]

Solution or container?
This is just the salt release bath, in my utility sink.
Later tonight (if the salt is gone) each "batch" will go into its own 5 gallon bucket for vinegar kuring for 5 days.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Duh! I knew that. You said Utility Sink earlier. Is the sink ceramic?

 

[Insane Reefer]

I also said it was a salt bath earlier, hehehe....

No, not ceramic, it is one of those heavy plastic ones. I think I will need to get a bung for the drain though - the drain do-hickey I have only works for the first fill - after that, I can't get a seal until I clean the sink out...

 

[medic29]

I've lost track....has anyone tried putting the rocks in muratic acid to help speed up the time of "curing" the rock? Meaning, putting the rock in a more acid environment (low pH), to help speed the amount of time it takes for the pH to drop. I don't believe this will speed upthe amount of time it takes for the salt to bleed off.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

As far as I know, noone has done that yet. You'll have to remember that the muratic acid will eat away at the rock itself. By the time you dilute it down to a safe percent, it would probably act very similar to acetic acid.

 

[Insane Reefer]

What Travis says, plus I think Muratic is one of the acids that reportedly can bond into the rock and create toxic gases. And then it is also not something you want to just drain out into the street.

 

[medic29]

I was just thinking of using it in the water to lower the pH in the water. It is used to lower the pH in swimming pools with no negative effect; was thinking the same thing for the rock. I didn't want to use it straight.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9964944#post9964944 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by medic29
I was just thinking of using it in the water to lower the pH in the water. It is used to lower the pH in swimming pools with no negative effect; was thinking the same thing for the rock. I didn't want to use it straight.

Muratic acid is very strong. You would need to know just the right amount so you don't degrade the rocks. Even diluted in water. And like Insane Reefer said, the reaction that the muratic acid has with some of the chemicals in the rocks could possibly create various noxious chemicals.

 

[medic29]

Actually, muratic acid is a dilute form of hydrochloric acid; thus the reason why it is used for swimming pools.