Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Sure no problem! It's 1 white cement : 1.5-2 aragonite sand : 1.5-2 perlite :beer:
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
TheFishMan65
New member
really, it looked to coarse for sand. Do you remember the grain size? Maybe it is so small all I see is the perlite?
thanks for sharing.
thanks for sharing.
Curing times
Curing times
Re curing times, I have never had any needing more then two months, some when they were still high at six weeks I either added vinegar, or later muriatic acid. Those were big rubbermaid tanks with a LOT of rock. Usually a gallon of vinegar brought it down, more water changes would have speeded that up also.
I have used perlite, and liked it, only made one batch with it but it works nicely.
I first used only oyster shell and sand, then rock salt, and finally oyster shell, sand, rock salt and crushed coral, the perlite would work nicely with the last combo I think.
Curing times
Re curing times, I have never had any needing more then two months, some when they were still high at six weeks I either added vinegar, or later muriatic acid. Those were big rubbermaid tanks with a LOT of rock. Usually a gallon of vinegar brought it down, more water changes would have speeded that up also.
I have used perlite, and liked it, only made one batch with it but it works nicely.
I first used only oyster shell and sand, then rock salt, and finally oyster shell, sand, rock salt and crushed coral, the perlite would work nicely with the last combo I think.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
You're right, the sand is pretty fine.. just specks on the perlite. I use pretty coarse perlite (The bigger the better IMO).
TheFishMan65
New member
I did not know that perlite came in grades. I got mine from Southern States. Now they did have organic perlite. I would love to know if there is any difference. From my understanding perlite is already organic, but I am not a chemist.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
I can't imagine there's a true difference between organic and regular perlite, I truly think it's just a label to attract more buyers.
I am also not sure there are certain grades of perlite, more like it just varies from company to company. When I usually purchase perlite, there's only one grade available but a few different companies.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
Holy Electrobes!!!:beer:
He appears from the dead on "The Rock" thread... Joking aside, how's the rock biz? How many lbs you made so far? I just surpassed my first bag of Portland I and looking for the white stuff next round (Yes, that means I've made about 500 lbs with my 1-1-1-3 [Portland I-FL shell fragments-CC-OS]recipe).
You ever do the greenhouse thing and fully culturing the rock? I ask, b/c I'm toying with starting to produce fully-cultured, 6 month old rock for credit ath a couple LFS. The only problem is I don't know that it will pay off with the time and cost of gas driving 25+mile one-way. I have about 300-400lb in Brutes that are currently acting as cryptic and 'sump' rock. I'd plop it in my big stock tank with a light, but don't really know the time required to get the life I would need to break the $2/lb rate at the LFS. Dry rock for $0.15/lb just isn't worth the effort unless it was a full-time job selling upwards of 1000-2000lbs a day.....
Needless to say, I have slowly became obsessed with creating rock that mimics Tonga branch and the ancient dead reef look with all the encased shells and weird shapes. Boring boulders are just know fun anymore.....
Good to see your still around this thread. Seems most of the followers have drifted away from the past few years (ericinfl...?).
He appears from the dead on "The Rock" thread... Joking aside, how's the rock biz? How many lbs you made so far? I just surpassed my first bag of Portland I and looking for the white stuff next round (Yes, that means I've made about 500 lbs with my 1-1-1-3 [Portland I-FL shell fragments-CC-OS]recipe).
You ever do the greenhouse thing and fully culturing the rock? I ask, b/c I'm toying with starting to produce fully-cultured, 6 month old rock for credit ath a couple LFS. The only problem is I don't know that it will pay off with the time and cost of gas driving 25+mile one-way. I have about 300-400lb in Brutes that are currently acting as cryptic and 'sump' rock. I'd plop it in my big stock tank with a light, but don't really know the time required to get the life I would need to break the $2/lb rate at the LFS. Dry rock for $0.15/lb just isn't worth the effort unless it was a full-time job selling upwards of 1000-2000lbs a day.....
Needless to say, I have slowly became obsessed with creating rock that mimics Tonga branch and the ancient dead reef look with all the encased shells and weird shapes. Boring boulders are just know fun anymore.....
Good to see your still around this thread. Seems most of the followers have drifted away from the past few years (ericinfl...?).
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Long time man! I haven't been on RC for a while now, but every now and then I come around and take a looksie.
The rock business is doing well, truthfully speaking this year will prob define how the rest of the years go for me. I finally finished moving to my permanent location and set up shop. I just finished setting up my newest machinery a couple of weeks ago, and tested it about a week ago. Lucky for me it not only passed but did so with flying colors.
I only make and sell base rock (At wholesale only). It's consistent and has been doing well right from the get go. I've thought about doing live rock, but to be honest its just too much of a hassle as I live too far away from any of the warmer waters to culture it. Doing it in house is just not in the books right now as I am at full production and am still selling out.
I dunno what happened to the rest of the people. I come and go mainly because I've just been very busy. Between a new kiddo, the new shop, and being a part-time house dad.. finding the time to hang out on the forums have been hard to come by.
The rock business is doing well, truthfully speaking this year will prob define how the rest of the years go for me. I finally finished moving to my permanent location and set up shop. I just finished setting up my newest machinery a couple of weeks ago, and tested it about a week ago. Lucky for me it not only passed but did so with flying colors.
I only make and sell base rock (At wholesale only). It's consistent and has been doing well right from the get go. I've thought about doing live rock, but to be honest its just too much of a hassle as I live too far away from any of the warmer waters to culture it. Doing it in house is just not in the books right now as I am at full production and am still selling out.
I dunno what happened to the rest of the people. I come and go mainly because I've just been very busy. Between a new kiddo, the new shop, and being a part-time house dad.. finding the time to hang out on the forums have been hard to come by.
TheFishMan65
New member
For those of you that have done a lot. For curing and getting the Ph down does temperature or flow make a difference?
rustyjames
EMT-B
I haven't been able find anything on this but has anyone used a grout bag or even a pastry bag to make some branch type rock? A blob at the bottom and a smaller blob at the top with interwoven "cables" connecting the two?
There was a guy on youtube making tonga branch with it.
He had some issue pushing it through the opening but after he figured it out he made it.
He had some issue pushing it through the opening but after he figured it out he made it.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
You can steam the rock for a quicker cure. It was discussed greatly in the early middle of this thread. Never tried it so cannot comment.
The No. 1 way to have a quick pH drop IME is you absolutely MUST let the rock sit in the damp casting medium for at least 3 weeks. If you pull the rock out before this amount of time, the calcium hydroxide that is produced from the Tricalcium silicate + Water reaction begins dissolving into your surrounding water bath. Your end result will be a painfully long pH spike that could be avoided by allowing the entrapped calcium hydroxide to crystallize by means of the hydration process. Unfortunately, I'm not doing this wonderful science any justice as it has taken me many hours reading to understand hydration chemistry and correlating this to MMLR. See the below link for a deeper look and there are certainly many more site explaining this science:
http://matse1.matse.illinois.edu/concrete/prin.html
I have not used a pastry bag, but have made extensive webs or patterns in my casting bins to make some 'Tonga-style' branch. I would think that the pastry bag would become a pain between lifting either a heavy bag or constantly refilling, but I'm intrigued by one of the YT videos and might give it a whirl.....
The problem I have with my Tonga-style rock is maintaining a smooth outer appearance. Mine always has the rough surface as you see with Electrobes rock in his pics. I've also tried a pvc/vinyl tubing 'mold' for this, but it just doesn't look as natural as I would like and at about 8hrs per mold the time investment is not worth the hassle for anything except personal use. That's probably why I buy any wild Tonga branch I come across, as it truly is the only formation that is not easily replicated with cement-based rock.
Last edited:
Crit21
Active member
I remember that video. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he used a grout bag made specifically for mortar. It's a good technique, but I have a feeling that it makes a very dense "coral".
Crit21
Active member
Organic perlite? There's no such thing. Perlite is volcanic glass that's expanded by heating it to 850-900 degrees Celsius. It works great in DIY rock, providing a mountain of surface area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. The only downside is that if you don't add enough dense material when you make a batch, you end up with floating rocks.
Jay1982
New member
I've been wondering if I could use my saltwater pool as a curing bin instead of the rubbermaids I have been emptying and filling on a daily basis. There isn't any chlorine used and the salt brand that is used in the pool is sifto pool salt. I checked their bag and website and couldn't find any warning labels or adverse chemicals.
Has anyone else tried this method?
Has anyone else tried this method?
First off, awesome thread (well, the 200th split anyway). Been eyeballing it for quite some time (I'm not much of a poster around here).
Quick question, not sure it's been addressed in one of the million thread replies or not. It's pretty well-known that coralline really digs the plastic. Has anyone experimented with latex or craft plastic coatings on the rocks after completion? Food grade silicone, clear cast resin, marine epoxy, hard "craft plastic" (generally used for solid casting) etc etc? Thought painting a bit on (obviously you'd want to "re-cure" the stuff, or apply it before the kure).
Probably wouldn't want to coat the whole rock in it, as you'd lose a lot of the water/rock contact. Might help spark that purple we all know and love, and could be applied in some interesting designs. Rubber bands might be a cheap way to add some interesting textures as well... just a thought.
Rocks using plastic shavings tends to draw coralline pretty successfully, but plastic shavings are pretty impractical and the dust made creating them can be harmful to inhale.
Gonna make a boatload of this stuff soon, just weighing the options. Also, what about chunks of sponge, or finely-chopped pieces mixed in the cement? You'd probably want it to be wet so it would allow for expansion, but could allow some good breathability to the rock.
Quick question, not sure it's been addressed in one of the million thread replies or not. It's pretty well-known that coralline really digs the plastic. Has anyone experimented with latex or craft plastic coatings on the rocks after completion? Food grade silicone, clear cast resin, marine epoxy, hard "craft plastic" (generally used for solid casting) etc etc? Thought painting a bit on (obviously you'd want to "re-cure" the stuff, or apply it before the kure).
Probably wouldn't want to coat the whole rock in it, as you'd lose a lot of the water/rock contact. Might help spark that purple we all know and love, and could be applied in some interesting designs. Rubber bands might be a cheap way to add some interesting textures as well... just a thought.
Rocks using plastic shavings tends to draw coralline pretty successfully, but plastic shavings are pretty impractical and the dust made creating them can be harmful to inhale.
Gonna make a boatload of this stuff soon, just weighing the options. Also, what about chunks of sponge, or finely-chopped pieces mixed in the cement? You'd probably want it to be wet so it would allow for expansion, but could allow some good breathability to the rock.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Coraline will cover the rocks in six months, as cement is rich in calcium. There is no benefit to plastic, and as you mentioned it detracts from biological capacity.
Latex paint is the best way of adding pigment to the rock until the coraline inevitably takes over, but I doubt it is more conducive to coraline growth than bare concrete, regardless of aggregate type (aragonite, perlite, silica etc.).
From a porosity standpoint, perlite is the past additive, however, it appears that even very dense rock has more than enough surface area for beneficial bacteria.
Yeah, coralline does eventually dominate, regardless of the plastics, but as a sort of accelerant I thought it might be a good idea. I've seen tanks tank years to get the rocks covered. Plastic products are always the first to get covered in the majority of setups.
Thanks for the input
Question for you, on those foam molds I saw (seems like many, many threads ago - and couldn't find them after searching several pages) were you using a specific type of foam, and were you using it as a mold (negative form) or just leaving it inside the concrete? Sorry to re-hash old subjects.For the Canadians looking for Silica sand, I am pretty sure that Princess Auto had many different types in their sand blasting department, along with recycled glass, quartz, etc. Places that sell sandblasting supplies may be a good place to look locally.
Also I was thinking about the suggestion to leave the cast parts in the mould for 28 days. If you want to cast many parts, this greatly limits your production, or you need many bins with sand. How about removing them as soon as it is safe to handle (48 hours?) and placing each in a plastic bag and then in a empty covered Rubbermaid bin for the remainder of the 28 day period. That way they are easy to stack and you get your moulding bins back available and the bag should maintain the part in a humid moist environment.
Good idea or not?
Dennis
Also I was thinking about the suggestion to leave the cast parts in the mould for 28 days. If you want to cast many parts, this greatly limits your production, or you need many bins with sand. How about removing them as soon as it is safe to handle (48 hours?) and placing each in a plastic bag and then in a empty covered Rubbermaid bin for the remainder of the 28 day period. That way they are easy to stack and you get your moulding bins back available and the bag should maintain the part in a humid moist environment.
Good idea or not?
Dennis
